singing the E4OD blues

trackspeeder

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Yes, and I should have clarified that by "freewheeling" I meant unlocking the converter. My coast clutch applies like it should when OD cancel is activated, and does a decent job in the engine braking department. Just there's only so much it can do when the main coupling between engine and trans (converter) is not very solid. My lockup does not automatically apply at off-throttle when OD cancel is active. Maybe newer TCMs do apply it, I dunno, haven't been able to find an F4 unit to try it. But coast clutch and converter lockup both applied together even at off throttle work beautiful for holding truck back. Just w/ my older TCM this does not happen automatically, hence my slight additions to the wiring. Hey, relays are cheap, aftermarket controllers not so much, lol

I don't think the later TCM will lock the converter on deceleration. Sadly the later TCM program sucks too:eek:. I do believe this was Ford's attempt to make people hate the E4OD.:rotflmao

Hey, nothing wrong with some wire, relays and switches:D. If that makes the tranny shift the way you, go for it. :thumbsup: The idea is to make the E4OD in your command not the TCM. I think anything will improve the stock TCM program.
 

LCAM-01XA

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i was contemplating an aftermarket controller for mine,now that iv got a hd reman,but then i stopped and thought about it,and the only issues i have is keeping the plugs clean in the winter.so i cleaned the solenoid pack plug real nice this last time and then smothered that ***** with black rtv.id like to see an issue with it now lol.
And I'd like to see you go for removing that plug if the need for it ever comes... lol RTV on a connector is a permanent solution to a temporary problem, I prefer packing the thing w/ Permatex dielectric grease as it's non-conductive yet thick and sticky and don't wash away easy at all.

it's nothing an aftermarket controller would have fixed for me.same plug.the '93's n/a controller (yes the '93/'94's optional turbo controllers are apparently different,but im not sure with what) operates the e40d exactly how i would program the controller myself,so im skipping the idea of going aftermarket.
My edumacated guess would be it has to do w/ altitude and different behavior of the two diesel engines up high - the n/a loses power and so the TCM will IIRC pull the upshifts earlier as you climb up Mount Everest, while a turbo engine doesn't care as much (at least my Fummins don't seem to) for high elevations and lower air density there so there is little loss of power and thus no need to alter the shift schedule. The TCM determines altitude based on the BARO sensor, which will read the same for both n/a and turbo trucks, so the different shift schedules for the two are done in the TCM programming, hence separate controllers available. And actually there are 3 controllers: low elevation n/a, high elevation n/a, and turbo. To make things even more interesting, the Superduty trucks got their own controllers, again different between n/a and turbo. I'd really like to know what is difference between a F-Superduty TCM and a normal 250/350 F-Series and E-series (vans and trucks use the same) controller...

lockup should happen only in 3rd gear.approx 5 mph after 3rd gear shift.

try cleaning the main harness at the ecm again and run a devoted ground to your tps.
Aye, that lockup in 3rd is what ****** me off exactly - she goes into 3rd at like 25 (which is a good upshift point and I like it), but almost immediately locks, and truck goes "bleh" and falls on her face. I don't need 1200 rpms while trying to accelerate, but I don't wanna have to give her more throttle to keep her from locking up so early either - I like accelerating like a freight train, nice and easy, and that just don't happen when she locks at 30 mph. I've read rumors that the F4 controllers should have that lockup point bumped up to 35 mph on the upshift side (and 30 on the lockup release) which would work much much better, but this is not what Eric is experiencing... So till I get my hands on an F4 and try it for myself, I'm sticking w/ no auto lockup in 3rd at all (manual lockup only), it's so much nicer and more pleasant to drive.

Good idea on the ground tho, actually I'll take that and add to it that the TCM ground that normally connects to the firewall by the hood hinge should be taken off there and extended all the way to the driver-side batetry - this ensure the controller has the best possible ground, and thus rules out a bunch of funky behaviors.
 

LCAM-01XA

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I don't think the later TCM will lock the converter on deceleration. Sadly the later TCM program sucks too:eek:. I do believe this was Ford's attempt to make people hate the E4OD.:rotflmao

Hey, nothing wrong with some wire, relays and switches:D. If that makes the tranny shift the way you, go for it. :thumbsup: The idea is to make the E4OD in your command not the TCM. I think anything will improve the stock TCM program.

OK, good to know, you're the E4OD expert here so your input is highly appreciated, thanks! So what's different in the later programming then: just bumped up base line pressure, better pressure rise in OD, no lockup in 2nd, and possibly lockup in 3rd bumped up a bit higher?

My latest idea is no lockup at all possible in 1st and 2nd (neither auto nor manual), then in 3rd still no auto lockup but manual is available, and when she shifts into OD she defaults to auto lockup w/ manual still available. Reasoning behind this is auto lockup in 3rd sucks but manual is needed for engine braking or when driving condition simply prevent upshift into OD. Then in OD having the converter manually unlocked is useless because the engine spins just as fast as when locked in 3rd only now we have massive heat generation and also code 62 - so manual unlock in OD goes out the window in favor of auto control (and thus hopefully no code 62), and manual lock is still there for engine braking purpose (manual lock does not set code 62, manual unlock in OD does). Mad science in full swing? lol
 

'94IDITurbo7.3

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Eric,
you still haven't addressed your issue.lockup should happen only in 3rd gear.approx 5 mph after 3rd gear shift.downshifting should be easy with goosing the throttle about 3/4 she should open the converter,downshift back into 3rd,then lock the converter back up.

well now that you have said it that way it seems as though mine is fine LOL. i get the TQ lock up right after the 3rd gear shift like you say. sometimes it seems to happen too fast(soon), but it probly happens within 5mph of the 3rd gear shift. didn't realise it takes that much throttle to get it to down shift. if i really east in the throttle in O/D i can be at the floor and i will still be in O/D puking black smoke like a cummins, and then it is like "oh crap, you are at WOT, you probly want a down shift"LOL. i guess i am just not used to giving it that much throttle to get a down shift. i am used to other vehicles that you just have to press the pedal down a little more and it kicks down no problem. it does kick down better if i make a quick stab at it, but sometimes it is not practical(or safe) to really stab at it, cuz when it does downshift it really takes off lol. it really sucks in traffic b/c when i want a touch more speed to keep up with traffic but don't want a downshift it just smokes. i could care less about the smoke in the country but drvign through town looking like a cummins is not cool at all.

when i get my truck back on the road(yes it happened again lmao) i will take a couple vids for you. normal accel from 0-55mph. one showing it luggin in O/D, and another showing what it does when i give it a nice quick stab of throttle.
 

LCAM-01XA

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i get the TQ lock up right after the 3rd gear shift like you say. sometimes it seems to happen too fast(soon), but it probly happens within 5mph of the 3rd gear shift.
Mine is the same way. The fact it's "normal" don't mean it's "right". Quite frankly lockup at 30 mph while attempting acceleration is the devil. Not many ways around it tho...

didn't realise it takes that much throttle to get it to down shift. if i really east in the throttle in O/D i can be at the floor and i will still be in O/D puking black smoke like a cummins, and then it is like "oh crap, you are at WOT, you probly want a down shift"LOL. i guess i am just not used to giving it that much throttle to get a down shift.
This is not normal, not by a long shot. 1/2 to 3/4 throttle should drop her down a gear or two. Never should she be at WOT w/o a downshift, unless you're already moving too fast for the lower gear.

i am used to other vehicles that you just have to press the pedal down a little more and it kicks down no problem.
That's the correct behavior for an E4OhDevil as well.

it does kick down better if i make a quick stab at it, but sometimes it is not practical(or safe) to really stab at it, cuz when it does downshift it really takes off lol.
The downshift there happens cause of the sudden jump of the TPS voltage into the WOT range. Stabs should not be needed tho. What's your current TPS voltage? Upshift engine speed (RPMs) at light throttle?

it really sucks in traffic b/c when i want a touch more speed to keep up with traffic but don't want a downshift it just smokes. i could care less about the smoke in the country but drvign through town looking like a cummins is not cool at all.
There is absolutely no reason why an empty IDI cannot accelerate in OD w/o blowing smoke. Especially on level ground. If you're hauling heavy, or pulling up a grade, then yes, a downshift would probably be needed to accelerate, and w/o downshift it's welcome to the smokehouse. But empty and on level ground, even a non-turbo IDI makes enough power to continue picking up speed in the current gear and w/o excessive smoke. So I'm thinking you got some other bugs to work out as well, not just stupid transmission behavior...

when i get my truck back on the road(yes it happened again lmao)
Now what did you do? lol
 

trackspeeder

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OK, good to know, you're the E4OD expert here so your input is highly appreciated, thanks! So what's different in the later programming then: just bumped up base line pressure, better pressure rise in OD, no lockup in 2nd, and possibly lockup in 3rd bumped up a bit higher?

My latest idea is no lockup at all possible in 1st and 2nd (neither auto nor manual), then in 3rd still no auto lockup but manual is available, and when she shifts into OD she defaults to auto lockup w/ manual still available. Reasoning behind this is auto lockup in 3rd sucks but manual is needed for engine braking or when driving condition simply prevent upshift into OD. Then in OD having the converter manually unlocked is useless because the engine spins just as fast as when locked in 3rd only now we have massive heat generation and also code 62 - so manual unlock in OD goes out the window in favor of auto control (and thus hopefully no code 62), and manual lock is still there for engine braking purpose (manual lock does not set code 62, manual unlock in OD does). Mad science in full swing? lol

The changes affect shift quality. The later program is supposed to have better shift speed control. (feels the same to me.) The final program should allow lock up in second. Lock up is based on RPM. Like the 4R100 PCM codes.


The TCM will not allow lock up in first. Basically you're holding third unlocked longer. This is a plus because as you know early lock up in third is a dog. Your mad science is following down the road of an aftermarket controller. Without the price tag.:D
 

LCAM-01XA

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The changes affect shift quality. The later program is supposed to have better shift speed control. (feels the same to me.) The final program should allow lock up in second. Lock up is based on RPM. Like the 4R100 PCM codes.
By shift speed, do you mean at what vehicle speed the shifts occur? Or how quick the actual shift (application of clutches and so on) happens? The latter I have already fixed in mine (that was fun, thanks God for aftermarket drain plug kits). And I though I read somewhere that the lock in 2nd was dropped for the F3 and F4 controllers, pump not being able to keep w/ fluid demand or something...


The TCM will not allow lock up in first. Basically you're holding third unlocked longer. This is a plus because as you know early lock up in third is a dog. Your mad science is following down the road of an aftermarket controller. Without the price tag.:D
Oh I know she won't lock in 1st, the reason I'm disabling that anyways is that I use the SS1 signal to prevent it from locking in 2nd (which it will attempt to do sometimes), and SS1 is grounded in both 1st and 2nd. Then to kill auto-lock in 3rd I'm using the SS2 signal, which is grounded in 1st and 3rd. So essentially I end up w/ triple disable on lockup in 1st - the TCM itself, then my SS1 relay, and then my SS2 relay (the relays are stacked) - way overkil and definitely not required, but it's a side effect of the other stuff I'm after. Anyways, it's done and wired up. How well it works idk yet, will find out soon enough tho.
 

FORDF250HDXLT

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mine never locks on me in 2nd gear.it's always after 3rd and always @ 34 mph.
once she locks,she still has no issue pulling me up a steep grade.true if left open she'd pull harder and boost higher,but in proper tune she has always kept accelerating even starting out on a steep hill if i feed her the juice.

Eric,
your fuel is up too high and your tps voltage is off.
 

'94IDITurbo7.3

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my TPS voltage is at aoubt 1.0? something or 1.1? something idle and about 4.3? something WOT iirc. it has been a long time since i checked it.
 

LCAM-01XA

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That's possibly lower than what most folks seems to run here... Definitely lower than mine. Bump her up to 1.2V, that will make her hold the lower gear longer and kinda wind up in the engine speed before an upshift (expect to see 2000-2200 at light throttle unless you let off momenatrily), but your downshifts will become much more responsive.
 

'94IDITurbo7.3

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keeping up with traffic mine will shift around 2500 rpm. anytime i try higher TPS settings than that it won't shift until like 3K unless i let off. I tried the 1.2 once and that got sketchy fast. i couldn't use any more than about half throttle or it would just go right to yellow line on the tach and wouldn't shift unless i let off. i got home from my test drive and turned it back lol.

I even went from .9? something to what i am at now and it didn't do jack squat for the down shifts lol. it has been about three years but i wanna say that even when the TPS was set to where the trans would SLAM into the next gear it had this downshift "issue". most of the time if i am in town or there is a car behind me i will just hit the O/D off button to force a "down shift" and pick up speed then turn o/d back on.



BTW, my truck is sitting b/c the rad started leaking, water pump was leaking badly out the weep hole, lift pump is leaking externally, and the IP is leaking out the advance plunger. want to do e-fuel so i don't kill another IP with 0psi of fuel pressure and so i can actually take advantage of the new turbo and head studs. kinda sucks running 5 psi with a new, modded turbo and studs, the turbo doesn't even fully light most of the time. I am just waiting for my new rad to show up, already got the water pump in. have not addressed the issue of the fuel leaks(they are bad lol).
 

LCAM-01XA

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Seems like a controller issues to me... Two things to try, in that order:

1) find TCM main ground, a fat black wire. On a brick the it terminates at the firewall or hood hinge which IMHO is a poor choice for a ground location. Extend that wire by several feet, and ground it at your driver-side battery directly.

2) verify TPS voltage at the TCM itself. Locating the grey/white (pin #47) wire among the like 30 others can be a pain, but it's doable.

If these fail, it's time to try a new controller. Got a junkyard near you that has IDIs in it?

Sucks for your rad, but it happens. Good time to switch to e-fans for fuel economy purposes. Use fuel-injection hose on your fuel lines (SAE 30R9), it's much more resilient to diesel fuel than regular (SAE 30R7) hose. Cost is a bit high, but has gone down lately.
 
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