Question on machining or decking an idi head?

icanfixall

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Dieselcast Welding sells the new 7.3 heads. So does Alabama cylinder heads as does cleawater cylinder heads in clearwater florida. Several others sell them too but I don't have the names. Just ask those ebay sellers if they offer them new. Some will sell them both complete or bare....
 

rhkcommander

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Diesel cast is just up in portland :sly. I've heard lately that 7.3 heads should work on a 6.9. If its possible i may just give these a shot with my head studs :dunno. Would the heads be able to wiggle around with the difference, or is there something that would hold them in place laterally? I wonder if they can open the coolant ports too

Thanks for the information:hail
 
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icanfixall

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They wont move around at all because of the alignment dowels on both ends of the heads. Just removing the plugs in the 7.3 heads will allow coolant to flow normalyy into the 6.9 block. Both the 6.9 and 7.3 head gaskets measure exactlly the same. The fire rings and the coolant passages and the bolt holes are the same. Its just the two bottom coolant passages on the 6.9 that differs these gaskets from the 7.3 I also wonder what would happen if we used a 7.3 head gasket on a 6.9 and plugged off those two lower coolant passeges in each head. We use the same water pump. The same fan.. The same oil cooler... The same radiator. Why is just these 4 total coolant passages plugged up in the 7.3 but open in the 6.9....:dunnocookoo
 

sassyrel

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I just wanted you guys all to know that I have been informed otherwise by machinists that the heads can be cut. The inconel is not a big deal to cut a groove into with the right tooling.

I also have a line on a legitmate source to get fire ringed gaskets, More info to come...

me thinks,,youd best check out old threads............the distance,,between the valves,,and the pistons,,is close now,,plus your going to jack the cr up even more..but go right ahead...
 

sle2115

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Compression ratio shouldn't change on a flat head from surfacing if done correctly, decking the block will. When we did IDI heads, we removed the pre-cups, surfaced the head, then had a machine to surface the pre-cups. The pre-cups were re-installed and measured, then machined more if needed. The main reason being, a broach with a CNC cutting bit can, will and has caught the edge of a pre-cup in the machining process. The cups will sometimes move from the vibration of the cutter. This cutter is like a large flywheel, with a carbon puck that contacts and cuts the head, approximately 18" in diameter. It carries a lot of mass and has a lot of hp turning it, so if a pre-cup raises in it's bore ever so slightly, damage is going to result! There is also a protrusion measurement on the pre-cups. So, you surface the head, without the pre-cups, the cutout for the pre-cup now becomes less deep, so you have to remove material from the ledge it sits on, or the pre-cup itself. We could do both, generally you are only talking .002-.003 however much is taken off when the head is surfaced, and often times, the thickness of the pre-cups is still within protrusion specs, which might be the best of both worlds, no material removed from the pre-cups, but still within spec.

When doing a flat surfaced head, the valves are set deeper in the head (which happens anytime a valve job is done anyway), valve stems are cut to proper standing height on non lash adjustable valves, and the valves function just as they did prior to surfacing. CNC tooling is even available to remove material in the combustion chamber, around the valves to make the compression change minimal to non-existent. I've taken small block chevy heads and removed enough material from a closed chamber head to drop a point in compression when the customer needed lower compression (ie turbocharging or supercharging) in a class where stock heads must be used.

That being said, there is no doubt in my mind they pre-cups can be cut with CNC machining, seen it done. The question remains who has an o-ring gasket, and it sounds like several places might be taking on that task.
 

icanfixall

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To add something to the above statement about the precups. Its so very true whatever you remove from the head you also remove the same amount from the crecups or in the precup recession in the head. The factory setting for a properly installed precup in the head is + or _ 2 1/2 thousands... So that means the cup can stand high or low in the head by .0025. Thats a very big tollerance and should be easily reached. Now on another site..:angel: A member had some water issues in his rebuild. Seems water was flowing up the head bolts into the heads... His original thoughts were the head bolt holes drilled and tapped in the block entered the water passages like many gasser engine do. So he removed the heads to find no such issues. I even checked this out on my block... None of the drilled and threaded bores for the bolts go thru to the coolant side of the engine. So after looking closely at the water travel path he found it was the precup in the head. It was found to be too high and was keeping the gasket from covering all the head. It was only .0035 above the block but it was enough to leak. So make sure your precups are no more than .0025 above the deck. I would personally kep them no more than .0001 or even with the deck...
 

bike-maker

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We used to surface the heads with the precups still in. We had an old school surfacer that spun really slow and had something like 16 cutters on it. If you try it with a CBN cutter (sounds like what SLE2115 was using) you're taking your chances.
 

riotwarrior

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When worked at OSE Bill had an old mill that used a huge ass grinding wheel that he had to dress every so often, it did an amazing job of heads, the finish was unlike a cut head, it was a polished grind and wow, never one problem ever! Decked blocks heads, and had a fly wheel setup too that would spin slowly and alow for a very nice refinish of it. Amazing how well it worked....just never could do aluminum, had to send those out
 

icanfixall

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Did that grinder have a magnetic rotating table to it.. If so it was probably called a Blanchard Grinder. Great machine for surface grinding too. I did my exhaust manifolds on one just before I retired. I sure do miss using all those great machines for personal use. I had millions of dollars in the machine shop tools to use as I saw fit... I sure did use them too....:sly
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...akeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en
 
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riotwarrior

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Did that grinder have a magnetic rotating table to it.. If so it was probably called a Blanchard Grinder. Great machine for surface grinding too. I did my exhaust manifolds on one just before I retired. I sure do miss using all those great machines for personal use. I had millions of dollars in the machine shop tools to use as I saw fit... I sure did use them too....:sly
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...akeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en


Nope it was not quite like that, it was about 6-8 feet long 4 feet from front to back and about 4 feet tall. the front dropped down like a sliding door to allow access. Then you would mount the head in surface to grind facing upward, measuring and ensuring square. The machine ran a grinder over the head from one side to the other then back. God it was soooooo nice a finish.
 

6 Nebraska IDIs

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I have yet to find a machine shop that would Oring an IDI head. I called every diesel machine shop I could find in the US and none would do it. Back when I worked at the tool and die shop I had 2 friends that said they would do them on the CNC mills, but I was too chicken to let them try it. I'm still more apt to my idea of getting a head gasket that has inserted Orings in it that do not require machining the block or heads to make them work. They are out there for other applications, it can be done.
 
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