Powerstroke fuel system

Fatback

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I get how the fuel system works for the IDI. a lift pump pressurizes the fuel system to the injector pump. the injector pump distributes fuel to the injectors based on cam timing and the order of the fuel lines, pressurizes the injectors to what ever pop pressure and then the injector cuts loose and sprays the fuel into the pre cup. I got that.

How does the powerstroke work? what is used in place of the injector pump and how does the oil get pressurized to pop the injector? How does this system work on the 7.3 6.0 and 6.4?


I am shopping for a fatback and thinking I am going to step up to a powerstroke or a duramax...... no flaming ..... I lean towards Ford but the Duramax guys I talk to all like their engines.
 

NJKen

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The 7.3 and 6.0 (not so sure about the 6.4) use high pressure oil to fire the injectors. Fuel is presurised somewhere in the 65+ psi range (depending on fuel pressure mods) and goes through the head to get to the injector. Fuel is supplied to the injector at all times. There is a device called a High Pressure Oil Pump (HPOP) that sits in the place of the injection pump and it feed oil under high pressure into both heads. The pressure is controlled by the computer. The injector is fired by a solenoid that lets this high pressure oil push a piston within the injector that pushes a plunger that injects the fuel. The injectors have o rings on them to keep the high pressure oil and fuel separated.
Thats the shortened version.
Ken
 

Fatback

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Thank you for your response. Now if I may, I would like bother with a couple more questions.

so does the solenoid sit atop the injector?
Is this why Powerstroke injectors cost $1200?
How reliable is the HPOP and what does it cost to replace?
How long do these injectors and HPOP typically last?
Is this fuel system a bigger PIA than the IDI fuel system?
 

Goofyexponent

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In short....I'd rather do my entire fuel system on my IDI than just 3 PSD injectors!!

I am told that PSD injectors run from $250 and up a piece. I guess due to their electronic components and complexity.

There is a kit however that sonverts an Hpop 7.3 to a full mechanical injection system....that would be the felines backside there! Full mechanical direct injection, and turbo'ed to boot!
 
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82F100SWB

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The "kit" for a mech injected PSD is said to run in the $15,000 range...
The HUEI system is very reliable, and reasonably trouble free.
Injector prices aren't quite as crazy as they used to be, you can get a set of stockers for a 7.3 re-built for about the $500 mark now from some places. Still looking at around $150 a piece brand new from most sources though. However, they aren't a normal service item like on an IDI. Same goes for the HPOP, they are a very reliable piece, and on a stock engine, it's not something you're going to have to worry about. They usually only get swapped out for bigger ones to run larger aftermarket injectors.
 

Goofyexponent

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would that be the "P" pump conversion?

The P pump conversion refers to converting the VP44 pumped 24 valve, and VE pumped 12 valve cummins to a P7100 Bosch style inline pump....very similar the the pump used on the new style mechanical DT466 International. A LOT of power can be had for cheap with minor tweaking!

The kit I was refering to was this kit made by Hypermax. It's the reliability and simplicity of our IDI's, put on a DI motor!

There is nothing wrong with the HPOP system, but when it comes time to replace injectors, I'll stick with my $30 a piece BB's from international!!
 

Fatback

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The P pump conversion refers to converting the VP44 pumped 24 valve, and VE pumped 12 valve cummins to a P7100 Bosch style inline pump....very similar the the pump used on the new style mechanical DT466 International. A LOT of power can be had for cheap with minor tweaking!

The kit I was refering to was this kit made by Hypermax. It's the reliability and simplicity of our IDI's, put on a DI motor!

There is nothing wrong with the HPOP system, but when it comes time to replace injectors, I'll stick with my $30 a piece BB's from international!!

yeah, I know about the P pump conversion for the 24 valve. After trashing 2 VP's on the Old Man's '02 Ram because he would not take my advice and ditch the mechanical lift pump for an electric that fails open and tells you that you lost fuel pressure .... now it has a P pump.

I though some Powerstroke guys did the same thing because I have heard rumors of a P pumped powerstroke. I know a guy that is currently working on a way to P pump his 6.5TD..... along with a top secret one piece machined main cap and girdle and direct injection.

I just want to find a stock dually that will be trouble free. if the HPOP and injectors are not an issue with a powerstroke I will prolly get the Ford, I understand that Durmax has injector issues..... expensive injector issues.

I set out looking for an IDI, but the people that own 7.3 turbo IDIs think they are made from gold or something......... I would rather spend 25 grand for a low miles powerstroke than spend 10 grand on a truck that is 16 years old with over 200K on the clock (that and I have decided I want a 6spd, no more problem prone automatics). I will not however, buy another used 6.5. That truck had alot of problems..... and it was a well maintained truck, had all its service records going back to 1994.
 

snicklas

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Thank you for your response. Now if I may, I would like bother with a couple more questions.

so does the solenoid sit atop the injector?
Is this why Powerstroke injectors cost $1200?
How reliable is the HPOP and what does it cost to replace?
How long do these injectors and HPOP typically last?
Is this fuel system a bigger PIA than the IDI fuel system?

FatBack,

The HEUI (Hydraulicaly operated, Electricaly acuated, Unit Injector) Is a one piece unit. From what I have seen, they are maybe 6 or 7 inches tall. At the top is an electrical solenoid that will allow High Pressure Engine Oil to enter the upper part of the injector. This high pressure oil is at ~500PSI at startup an on a 6.0 can go to 4000PSI under a hard load. The chamber fills and at the appropiate timing the solenoid allow the oil to be released agains the intensifier piston, this creates the fuel pressure, the "pop" pressure on the injector is ~3100PSI. This is why that injectors are more expensive. Yes it is true, you can replace all the injectors in an IDI for the price of 1 HEUI injector. However, if you look at a GOOD rebuild, or a Moose Product + Injectors and a return like kit, you are fairly close in price. The stock HPOP I have read is around $500.

The HPOP and Injectors are typically very reliable, however, they are very sensitive to fuel and oil quality. DO NOT run "junk" fuel in a 6.0 and newer. I personally would not in any HEUI system, but there are members that have run alternate fuels in the 7.3 with some success. These do not have an "expected service life" like the IP and Injectors on an IDI have. I have heard of stories of trucks that are stock, and well maintained that have 400+k miles on the original HPOP and HEUI Imjectors. But well maintained is the key!!!!

On the complexity, all the fuel supply and returns in a 6.0 and newer (not sure on the 7.3) are all passages in the head. So if you replace an injector, that is all you replace, however, the injectors are located under the Valve Covers, and on the 7.3 so are the GP's. so you have to remove the valve covers to replace the injectors, but you do not have the supply and return lines to deal with. So it may seem more complex, however, each system has its own quirks and complexities.....

I hope this helps. If you look at the entire "book" that I linked to a page in, that is called the "6.0L Bible" and has a lot of good info on hew things work and where they are located.....
 

Goofyexponent

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That HEUI system is the same system found on the C series Cat engines the big boys run. (C7, C9, C13 and the big one, C15)

No real complaints from the C series Cat's on my part, I have run a few of them without any major issues.
 

snicklas

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Goofy,

Yep the same type of system. the real problem witht he 6.0 was the FoMoCo "bean counters" got ahold of and "cheapened" it up. When they put lower cost components in it..... the expected result happened......
 

Russ

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The biggest wear item on PSD injectors are the O-rings. Most will need replaced in the 100K-150K mikes range. but the injectors will last much longer if good fuel and clean filters are used. My PSD has over 200K and is still on the original HPOP, but we changed injectors at 180K because o-rings were bad and I wanted to go bigger anyhow. IIRC my old injectors were re-oringed and put in another truck.
 

Fatback

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good to know. I am a cat man myself......... although my current tractor has a 565 ISX POS......... thinking about taking it behind the barn and putting it out of my misery.
 

Goofyexponent

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good to know. I am a cat man myself......... although my current tractor has a 565 ISX POS......... thinking about taking it behind the barn and putting it out of my misery.

The IS series cummins will NEVER be as good as it predecessor....the N14! I currently run an N14 Celect Plus 525 and I LOVE it! Ain't another tandem truck around here that can run with that KW :sly
 
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