moose power?

[88 Ford]

Ya, that's what I'm saying. If it were me, I would use a t70 t4 Garrett turbo or bigger, since you don't need to worry about spool up as much. Still with the super last, you won't want to exceed 20lbs of boost since it still has to compress all of the air, and they get extremely inefficient at boost levels that high.

Ya I definitely didn't plan on going much over 20 psi if I do at all. But if I do I have my big ol' intercoller and my water/methanol injection to keep things cool.

 

[88 Ford]

Oh another thing 429idi, what about a 94-97 Powerstroke turbo? I have one lying around and was wondering if you think that would be big enough? I believe in a compound setup that a poster named Flatlander used it as the big turbo.

 

[429idi]

Ya I definitely didn't plan on going much over 20 psi if I do at all. But if I do I have my big ol' intercoller and my water/methanol injection to keep things cool.

I'm not worried about exit temps as much as the hp it takes to run it at the higher boost, and the belt starts to slip at 20psi.

On the psd turbo, I haven't been able to find a map for one of those, but I would imagine if those guys are getting 25psi out of them, it would be big enough. And the 1.01 a/r t4 turbine will keep your drive pressures down.

 

[kas83]

now for what im doin to mine and it is goin to work and do not dare steal my ideas cause im goin to purposely leave out a coulpe things.

oh lets start out with that the engine is a 84 it is goin to have cut low comp pistons, havent decided on the twin turbos yet ported and polished 7.3 heads with fire rings and o rings drilled and taped for 120 hp 12v cummins injectors, 60 over engine rebiuld on everything, water ****, banks tecnicooler for a 99 psd with 3.5 boost tubes, either a custom built factory turbo 7.3 pump or a in lime 8 p pump off a v8 perkins that will be modded, air dog 2 200, custom ground cam, raised displacement above a 7.3, srtight 14 or 15.1 copresion, with fully equiped gages, and a few other trade secrets.

Ok, I was sent this quote, and was asked how much of this is even feasible. You've got a great list of things going here, however, it simply won't work. For starters, you're using a 6.9 block, which uses 7/16" headbolts, versus the 7.3 heads, which uses 1/2" bolts. Ok, machine the block to accept the larger bolts/studs, similar to the Cummins boys going from 12mm to 14mm. I'll give you that one. Fire rings, or orings, can NOT be machined into an IDI head, due to the prechamber extending outside the cylinder wall, and being a removable piece. Your ring groove will be allowed to move ever so slightly, resulting in a failed seal. You could o-ring the block, and use the wire to push up on the fire ring of a stock headgasket, but that's as far as you can go with that. 120hp Cummins injectors will definately help you make power, and of course you could machine the heads to accept them, but the spray pattern simply will not work in an IDI. Ever see the throat of a prechamber? Miniscule compared to the bowl in a Cummins piston, since those are Direct Injected. You say you're going to go 60 over on everything, I hope you mean simply boring 60 over. Since a 7.3 is essentially a 6.9 with a .110 overbore, I don't see your displacement being upped beyond 7.3 liters unless lengthening the stroke. Dropping your compression that far is by all means feasible also, but the thing will require ether to start at any temp. Custom cut pistons? Flycuts, enlarged chambers, shaved? IDI pistons aren't 'bowl' type pistons like those found in direct injected engines.

Why not just start with a blown 7.3 PSD, throw an inline pump on it, build it up, then add accessories of your choice? You're starting with direct injection, which will help you get ahead of the game. Your above listed comination sounds impressive, but in reality, is plain nonsense and a pipe dream.

I've been inside an IDI, built a few hi-po CTD's, and tinkered with several other engines, I'm talking from good old fashioned experience here. Go back to the drawing board, realign your plans, study up on IDI engine theory, and go from there.

PS, I'd love to hear some of your 'trade secrets', since you're plan has already been completely disected and proven wrong.

 

[88 Ford]

Ya I definitely didn't want to get boost from the SC. Just enough to spool the turbo. And ya definitely might try the Powerstroke turbo too.

 

[seawalkersee]

Kas, you should start a thread with the differences in HP/TQ as to why ours can only be made on a computer in a lab in stead of a street driven vehicle. Then, a mod should stick it right into the FAQ posts.

Not trying to stir the pot here, but I looked at a few of these things when I was building my setup and could see the problems built into it from the factory.

Not a ton of power, but will pull a moon at 25mph with your foot to the floor....forever. And if it breaks, it can be fixed for less than the cost of a child.

SWS

 

[blown84]

the above statement is exactly why i want to play with IDI...

thanks seawalker.

 

[icanfixall]

I may have an idea that will allow some power to be found in these engines. As it has been said many times... Our engines are indirect injection.... How can we change that. If a precup was cut so that the fuel being sprayed can go directly to the piston top maybe that might be the makings of a direct injected idi engine. The angle of the injector may be an issue but fitting the psd pistons seem to be a direct fit... They are the same bore and the pins are the same as the idi turbo rods. I don't know what the rod to piston side clearance is but they both have floating pins. If not just use the idi turbo pistons and be done with it... Now if the precups are made from inconel like I think they are they can be welded on and machined easily to whatever shape thats needed.....

 

[blown84]

well, i dont know how well it will work, but i fully plan on close to doublin the size of the port to the prechamber... (not in demensions, but in flow capacity.)

 

[429idi]

I may have an idea that will allow some power to be found in these engines. As it has been said many times... Our engines are indirect injection.... How can we change that. If a precup was cut so that the fuel being sprayed can go directly to the piston top maybe that might be the makings of a direct injected idi engine. The angle of the injector may be an issue but fitting the psd pistons seem to be a direct fit... They are the same bore and the pins are the same as the idi turbo rods. I don't know what the rod to piston side clearance is but they both have floating pins. If not just use the idi turbo pistons and be done with it... Now if the precups are made from inconel like I think they are they can be welded on and machined easily to whatever shape thats needed.....

I've had a dream of billet heads that use 3208 cat injectors, and 3208 i/p, along with billet direct injection pistons. I know it would take a lot of work and planning that most people wouldn't think is worth it, but it you have the equipment and the know how, the cost won't be that extreme if you can do everything yourself. I'm hoping I can get a 5 axis mill withing the next 5-10 years and see exactly how hard it is going to be.

 

[93fordturbo]

This sounds very interesting... so you would bypass the prechamber?

 

[kas83]

Why not just start with a 7.3 psd n convert it over? Direct injecting an idi goes against everything idi.

The angle at which the injectors are would require an offset, oblong bowl in the piston, similar a 12 valve Cummins uses. No biggie.

 

[429idi]

Why not just start with a 7.3 psd n convert it over? Direct injecting an idi goes against everything idi.

The angle at which the injectors are would require an offset, oblong bowl in the piston, similar a 12 valve Cummins uses. No biggie.

Because that's lame. I have actually talked to people who want to put the 7.3 heui system on a 6.9.

If you put the injector between the valves, you could correct the angle.

 

[icanfixall]

Yes... Thats exactlly what I thinking. Even making an injector nozzle long enough to act like a direct injected injector would be great. This would require a longer pintle too. Then the heating might be a problem because of the way our injectors are set in our heads. They are close to the cooling jackets. I know they don't actually touch the nozzle to the heads but its close so not much heat transfer happens there but some does. Now a nozzle about 3/4 inch longer might make it a direct injection thru a modified precup design......

 

[429idi]

Yes... Thats exactlly what I thinking. Even making an injector nozzle long enough to act like a direct injected injector would be great. This would require a longer pintle too. Then the heating might be a problem because of the way our injectors are set in our heads. They are close to the cooling jackets. I know they don't actually touch the nozzle to the heads but its close so not much heat transfer happens there but some does. Now a nozzle about 3/4 inch longer might make it a direct injection thru a modified precup design......

How well would the pintle injector work with direct injection? Also, would pop off pressures need to be higher?

If you could fill in the pre-cup with weld material and machine it so it's like its just part of the head with a hole for the injector, that might be cool. Or better yet, just turn a plug out on a lathe in the shape of the pre-cup.