Is my idle normal?

[eatont9999]

Anyone who has been following my recent posts will know why I am posting this.

The truck has idled like this for as long as I can remember. I recently replaced the injectors and I am running the "old" pump which looks to be a reman at some point. I'm not sure how old the pump is or how many miles it has but I have not installed my new U-haul pump. Long story short, the U-haul pump has been in and out of the truck several times. I made adjustments to it, so I am not sure that I am ready to put it back in. I know I don't feel like it any time soon. The truck is timed to 8.5 BTDC and it is a 1991 7.3 IDI E4OD. The IP is at stock settings as far as I know.

Here is a video of the idle in park, drive and reverse. Reverse is particularly shaky.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6GdjkBHVpc

 

[Clayton]

Doesn't sound terrible at all too me.

 

[OLDBULL8]

Geez, I got seasick watching that video, soon as I quit throwing up I'll try and answer.

OK, better now.

Look's like your idleing at 900 RPM, that's where the idle should be at on cold start up, warm idle should be 650-700. Shifting gears shouldn't have any effect on the idle, guess you have a manual trans. backing up in idle, can't tell if you were shaking or the truck. Sounds like you have a miss, bad injectors, pull them out and see if they are wet on the nozzle(s). Wet = defective injector.

Why did you keep changing the IP? What adjustments did you make to the uhaul IP?

Edit: Whoops, I see you have an E4OD. Makes no diff.

 

['94IDITurbo7.3]

Why did you keep changing the IP? What adjustments did you make to the uhaul IP?

I mean nothing by this....i guess you did not read any or much of his link to FTE in his thread ***** on here. That thread explains everything. i don't blame you for not wanting to read through a 200+ post thread.

 

[eatont9999]

Geez, I got seasick watching that video, soon as I quit throwing up I'll try and answer.

OK, better now.

Look's like your idleing at 900 RPM, that's where the idle should be at on cold start up, warm idle should be 650-700. Shifting gears shouldn't have any effect on the idle, guess you have a manual trans. backing up in idle, can't tell if you were shaking or the truck. Sounds like you have a miss, bad injectors, pull them out and see if they are wet on the nozzle(s). Wet = defective injector.

Why did you keep changing the IP? What adjustments did you make to the uhaul IP?

Edit: Whoops, I see you have an E4OD. Makes no diff.

The truck shakes so much that I was shaking in my seat when in reverse. The shaking at idle not in gear when cold is almost unnoticeable. When the engine is warm, I notice the shake more. When cold in drive or reverse, I notice almost no shaking at all. When at normal operating temps, I notice more shaking in gear or park/neutral. If I put it in Park or Neutral, the shaking is decreased from when in gear.

The full story is here:
http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1070552-installing-ip-injectors-return-lines-and-gps-18.html

The injectors are new Delphi BB codes matched by Russ. There could still be a bad injector, though. I did not remove the timing cover when replacing the pumps.

 

[Drew2010]

yes a miss for sure. I have broken 2 injector lines at different times, running on 7 cylinders is dang near spot on to how yours is running.

 

[franklin2]

While it's shaking, crack each injector line. If it gets worse, that one is working. If you crack one and there is no difference, than that is the cylinder that is not working. It does not necessarily mean a bad injector. You could swap that injector with another and see if the problem moves. If the problem is still that cylinder, I would do a compression check on that cylinder.

 

[Goofyexponent]

Mine did this before too....what I did to fix it was get a new fuel filter....fill it COMPLETELY with howes diesel treat and install it on a Friday afternoon. I started the truck for about 90 seconds to a full two minutes and shut her down.......walked away until Monday morning.

When I came back on monday morning, it started normally as it always did with no shake, and I drove it to work. When I get to work is when I notice the roughness.....but it was gone. My problem was a dirty or stuck injector....the howes cleaned it right out for a mere $15.

You might have a stuck injector...even though they are new. Howes may or may NOT fix it, but it's worth a shot.

I am currently having pump problems unrelated to howes......I think it's a high mileage situation in my case. lol.

 

[eatont9999]

Mine did this before too....what I did to fix it was get a new fuel filter....fill it COMPLETELY with howes diesel treat and install it on a Friday afternoon. I started the truck for about 90 seconds to a full two minutes and shut her down.......walked away until Monday morning.

When I came back on monday morning, it started normally as it always did with no shake, and I drove it to work. When I get to work is when I notice the roughness.....but it was gone. My problem was a dirty or stuck injector....the howes cleaned it right out for a mere $15.

You might have a stuck injector...even though they are new. Howes may or may NOT fix it, but it's worth a shot.

I am currently having pump problems unrelated to howes......I think it's a high mileage situation in my case. lol.

I did the Diesel Kleen trick a few weeks ago. Is there a big enough difference between Howes and DK that I should get some Howes? I really don't want to pull the injectors...again...

There is a place close by that will pop test the injectors for $9.50 each. Does that sound like a good deal or should I buy a pop tester and do it myself?

 

[eatont9999]

While it's shaking, crack each injector line. If it gets worse, that one is working. If you crack one and there is no difference, than that is the cylinder that is not working. It does not necessarily mean a bad injector. You could swap that injector with another and see if the problem moves. If the problem is still that cylinder, I would do a compression check on that cylinder.

I did that when I originally installed the new IP and injectors but I couldn't tell which one was bad because all of them made a pretty big difference when cracked. I can always try it again.

 

[OLDBULL8]

The truck shakes so much that I was shaking in my seat when in reverse. The shaking at idle not in gear when cold is almost unnoticeable. When the engine is warm, I notice the shake more. When cold in drive or reverse, I notice almost no shaking at all. When at normal operating temps, I notice more shaking in gear or park/neutral. If I put it in Park or Neutral, the shaking is decreased from when in gear.

Stop and think about it for a minute. You have a fueling/power issue.

The shaking at idle not in gear when cold is almost unnoticeable.

When cold in drive or reverse, I notice almost no shaking at all.

Cold engine at 900 RPM. Less shaking. No engine load to speak of. Inertia relatively keeps the engine turning smoother.

When the engine is warm, I notice the shake more

Warm engine, lower RPM. Increased shaking. Inertia relatively less.
Now when you put it in gear, FWD or REV to move 3 tons of truck it is evident that you have a lack of power, that increases the shaking.

Having said all that. What would cause it to do that?

Shaking is caused by an uneven power stroke from one or more cylinders.
An uneven power stroke, is commonly called a "miss".

Defective valves, none or little compression in one or more cylinders.
You have to take a compression check to eliminate that cause.
Execessive blow by.
Very Low compression will produce white/blue smoke.
Very low compression, bent push rod(s), broken ring(s), cracked piston.


Stuck closed injector(s). In one or more cylinders. Produces a "miss"
A stuck closed injector can only be determined by taking it apart.

A stuck open injector will produce black smoke when the engine is reved up.
With a stuck open injector, you would not see the pintle sticking thru the nozzle.

Only a pop test on the injectors will determine if they are defective.

If timing is way retarded, it will produce white/blue smoke.

If timing is way advanced, engine will knock like hell.

It's highly unlikely the IP is at fault, takes very little fuel when idleing.

The above is the way I would go about diagnosing the shaking problem.

 

[eatont9999]

Stop and think about it for a minute. You have a fueling/power issue.




Cold engine at 900 RPM. Less shaking. No engine load to speak of. Inertia relatively keeps the engine turning smoother.



Warm engine, lower RPM. Increased shaking. Inertia relatively less.
Now when you put it in gear, FWD or REV to move 3 tons of truck it is evident that you have a lack of power, that increases the shaking.

Having said all that. What would cause it to do that?

Shaking is caused by an uneven power stroke from one or more cylinders.
An uneven power stroke, is commonly called a "miss".

Defective valves, none or little compression in one or more cylinders.
You have to take a compression check to eliminate that cause.
Execessive blow by.
Very Low compression will produce white/blue smoke.
Very low compression, bent push rod(s), broken ring(s), cracked piston.


Stuck closed injector(s). In one or more cylinders. Produces a "miss"
A stuck closed injector can only be determined by taking it apart.

A stuck open injector will produce black smoke when the engine is reved up.
With a stuck open injector, you would not see the pintle sticking thru the nozzle.

Only a pop test on the injectors will determine if they are defective.

If timing is way retarded, it will produce white/blue smoke.

If timing is way advanced, engine will knock like hell.

It's highly unlikely the IP is at fault, takes very little fuel when idleing.

The above is the way I would go about diagnosing the shaking problem.

Thank you for the info above. Just an FYI, my high idle solenoid has never worked since I bought the truck. It idles the same when cold or hot. I don't the the cold advance on the IP changes idle speed but I don't have it hooked up anyway.

I might try a compression test first because I can just remove the GPs and not the injectors. If that passes, then I can have injectors tested. If they pass, then I might be looking at a new truck. I don't have the money to pay someone to do a valve job and I don't have the space to try it myself since I live in an apartment. I need to drive this truck 4000 miles with a trailer in the next few months, so I need it to be reliable.

Does anyone know of a compression tester that will work with the GP holes on the 7.3? I have heard of people making connectors out of glow plugs. I'm just about out of money to spend on this thing, so maybe the auto parts store rents one. I'll have to check.

Thanks guys, keep the advice coming.

P.S. I timed her to 8.5 BTDC using the pulse method.

 

[eatont9999]

OK, fellas, You tell me:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDJeRxvLR7E

 

[eatont9999]

More for your viewing pleasure:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsGcOJ97w9E

 

[OLDBULL8]

Never thought about it before, but did you ever check the engine mounts? Don't know if the torque converter nuts being loose would cause that amount of vibration, easy to check tho, there is only four of them, you would get a rattle if loose.
I would hook up the cold idle solenoid and wire to cold advance and lower the hot idle to 650-700 RPM. The connector is by the #1 Glow plug kind of under the alternater. It will save fuel.