Holley Red rebuild?

[Agnem]

So I know a few of you have had problems with your Holley fuel pumps, and I've always said mine worked great, so I figured it was only appropriate that I come forward and say that out of the 4 of them that I've been running, I finally have one that is giving me trouble. The Moosestang which probably has 40K on the Holley Red, much of that running junk fuel is now having what I percieve to be a brush problem. I can always hear the pump run when I turn the key, so twice now I have turned the key and no sound. So I leave the key on and give the frame rail where the pump is mounted a whack with a broom handle, and the pump starts right up. The problem occured today, and then once before about a week ago. I suppose the motor has to land in just the right spot when I shut it off, for it not to start for me. Has anyone ever taken one of these apart to service the commutator and brushes? Seems like it should be doable to me if you could get the thing apart.

 

[icanfixall]

Good timely question Mel.... Yes.. I have taken several of them apart. Just remove the two long screw-bolts that are on the electrical end of the pump and pull it off. Be aware that this end needs to be aligned up so it goes back together the correct way. The motor body will come off the base easily too and it has some anignment points to. The magnets are very powerful. Now remove the 4 pump base bolts to reach the totor and vane assembly. Clean the screen and look for any fuel leakag into the motor section. Not much to these and I usually find the armeture so worn from the brushes that its a junk motor. Holley does sell rebuild kits but as to how much they have in them is a question I can't answer. Mine are usually worn out. Ebay has plenty of used pump for sale. Just look under Holley Red...e

 

[Agnem]

I seemed to remember you having some experience with this Gary. I have a spare on the shelf, so that one will go in, and then I can play with this old one. I figure if they can be serviced great. If not, well.... I may take the parts to Lancaster starter and alternator. Those guys work magic with motor rebuilds. I wouldn't doubt the brushes can't be sourced elsewhere.

I found this funny vid on youtube....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ltc9eP8Rhk

I have to chuckle because at the end he says it's "much better" but we will see how much better it is, when he has to get out tools to see if he has fuel presure when his rice burner won't start. I LIKE being able to hear it.

 

[subway]

sounds like a use and toss it unfortunatly, is there enough meat at all to turn down the armeture?

 

[Agnem]

That's what I would like to find out. Most of my experience with small motors usually indicates that dressing the commutator and replacing the brushes is usually all that is needed. The copper in the commutator is usually harder than the carbon brush that rubs on it. Sometimes the brushes are just hanging up because of dust or dirt and that's keeping the spring from pushing it down.

 

[MIDNIGHT RIDER]

If you can get into the sealed motor, the brushes should be easy to replace.


I have overhauled dozens at the fuel pumping end, but haven't yet disected a motor.

I figure they make them nigh impossible to get into just so most will chicken-out and just toss the pump.

As for the brushes, it is a simple matter to re-size a set of too-large brushes down to size if the correct ones are un-available.

I use one of those five-inch bench-top disc-sanders to re-size brushes.

A simple cleaning of the brush-ways may be all that your pump-motor needs.

They get all gooked up and sticky and don't let the spring push the brush firmly against the commutator.

You giving it a poke with the broom-stick shakes it enough to let the brushes slide on up there and make contact.

Once it starts running, the **** warms up and is not so sticky.

I bet from Holley, a new set of brushes would be as much as the whole pump.


I get them by the dozens at swap-meets, REDs, BLUEs, BLACKs, and many that are the exact same pump, but with a different name such as Pro-Comp.

I often take two or three pumps apart and make one good one.


Carter is by far a better pump and is what I use in the by-pass lines in all my trucks.

A Carter will outlast a dozen Holleys.

 

[RLDSL]

I'm not sure who at Holley Gary is buying candy and flowers for to be able to get the parts, but when I have tried to purchase internals for holley fuel pumps any further than seals and screens, Every single time I have ever called them the answer I have got was a very specific NO!, we do not sell rebuild kits or brushes for our fuel pumps, but you can send it in to this address, bla, bla bla, and we will rebuild the pump for you ( and at a price roughly more than what the pump cost to begin with) .THen when questioned why if they can rebuild them, why can't they sell the parts, they start getting rude and insist the parts are not available ( OK, so how the heck are THEY rebuilding the things if the parts are not available )
Previously it is what drove me to Mallory fuel pumps and more recently when the Holley that came on my truck when I bought it folded and I got the SAME answer that same answer is what drove me to go looking for a top notch commercial diesel pump and wound up discovering the Facet Dura Lift

 

[Agnem]

My guess would be that since Holley is not an electric motor manufacturer, that they don't want to give up who they are sourcing them from, and they probably don't fix them themselves either.

Damon, which Carter pump do you like?

 

[MIDNIGHT RIDER]

Damon, which Carter pump do you like?

Oh goodness, the part-numbers and the boxes that they come in are located somewhere on this 7-acre piece of property, surely in one of the six or seven buildings.


I will see if I can't procur that information.


Whereas the Holleys hang motor-UP, high and dry; the ones I use mount motor-DOWN and the fuel actually surrounds the internals of the motor.


There is a zinc-plated angle-bracket that attaches to the frame or whatever.

Three shouldered studs protrude from the top of the pump and pass through three of the six holes in the bracket.

Thick rubber grommets separate the shouldered studs from contact with the bracket, isolating vibrations and much of the noise.



To keep things clear, I use these electric pumps in BY-PASS lines, such that I can quickly prime/bleed the system, or immediately bring the electric-pump into action in the highly un-likely event that the mechanical piston-pump should fail.


I also have a valve and quik-couple that lets me pump fuel from any of my three tanks into an empty pop-bottle or D-9 CAT dozer, should the need arise.


The engine is fueled by the mechanical piston-pump; but, I would not hesitate to head out cross-country with the CARTER as my only pump.

 

[Fozz]

I've been out of town, so this is a late response, but I had an issue with mine once where the ground wire (comes out of the top of the pump) had an intermittant connection. I removed the pump and took it apart and found a bad solder joint. I may not have left enough slack in the line (ground) and over time the stress/vibration/etc on the connection might have caused it to fail. I resoldered it and haven't had an issue since. These pumps aren't meant for constant duty (read racing pumps), but I've had mine on for 5+ years and my truck is my daily driver. That said, I'm going to buy another and carry as a spare so I don't get stranded some day.

 

[subway]

Scott, sle2115 has the carter pump listed in his signiture "Carter P4594" i agree with Damon, the carter is a nice pump!

 

[82F100SWB]

The Carter I have on my IDI is a P4070, 6 psi, 72 gph the 4594 is 8 psi, same pump, just the internal bypass is set differently. The one on my IDI is at least 5 years old, I can't remember if I put the new one I had at the time on there or the one I'd had kicking around for at least 5 years prior...

 

[Agnem]

Cool. I'm game. Just ordered one on Jegs. Not that I don't like my Holley, but a little experience with a wider variety of products is a good thing.

 

[MIDNIGHT RIDER]

>>> BE PREPARED <<<

Were I relying on an electric pump as the main fuel supply pump I would mount TWO of them in side-by-side, check-valved, "Y" to "Y" configuration, with both pumps wired to one SPDT switch, such that flipping the switch UP turned ON one pump, and flipping the switch DOWN turned ON the other pump; thus, should one pump fail, the other could be immediately brought in play, without having to crawl under the truck and monkey around beside a busy highway.

I would use one pump one trip and the other pump the next trip, and so forth and so on, so that I would know that either pump was always ready to go.


A fuel-pressure gauge is paramount in importance in any fuel-system, and VITAL in any electric pumped system.

The injector-pump can pull all the fuel to run the truck through a dead lift-pump, with the driver being none the wiser; but, it will starve for the vital lubing/cooling volume of return fuel supplied by a generous lift-pump, and soon spell death for the injector-pump.

 

[dyoung14]

so far my holley blue is doing good, but im keeping a stock lift pump behind the seat just in case, my holley has seemed a little louder latley i can actually hear it when its idleing didnt use to be able to do that