Help with 6.9 fuel system?

[TK87_6_9]

I bought an 87 F-250 with a Banks turbo kit about a year and a half ago, and it ran long enough to test drive and drive 3.5 hours home, but died shortly after and I have been trying to get it started again ever since (aside from waiting for parts and ignoring it for a while cause I got too frustrated with it). It sat for several years before I bought it, and I didn't realize at the time but the rear tank was full of rust, and I ended up driving it that way until it wouldn't start anymore. I took both tanks out and the pickups were broken off and laying in the bottom of the tank, so I replaced the rear tank with a new one, cleaned the front one, replaced both pickups with sumps that draw fuel from the bottom of the tank, ran new nylon lines up to the selector valve, replaced the selector valve with a new one, replaced the lift pump, and both fuel filters. Now, if I try to start it, it will get fuel to come out of the lift pump, and around the injectors lines if I loosen them, but it will only run for about 20 seconds before it dies. I did not change the glow plugs, but as far as I can tell they are working normally, the light stays on as long as I would expect, and I can hear the relay click when it turns off. If I put a line directly from the lift pump into a can of diesel, it will start and run at 1500-2000 RPM with the accelerator on the floor, but will die otherwise. What do I do now? I am thinking the nasty fuel may have ruined the injector pump and injectors, in which case I think I am done trying to fix it, but I really have no diesel knowledge or experience except for some old Mercedes which never had any problems related to being diesel powered while I had them, and I don't want to sell the truck for half what I paid for it if I am missing an easy fix.

 

[IDIBRONCO]

Since the engine will start, your glow plugs aren't a problem here.
Since the engine will run at 1500-2000 RPM, I doubt that your pump and injectors are ruined. The first thing that comes to my mind is inadequate fuel supply. I would suspect that your fuel filter may be plugged, or that your lift pump is on the way out, or both. Again, to me, since your fuel system is new from the good tank to the engine, and (I think) it runs a little better with a can of fuel pumped directly into the lift pump, it sounds like either a weak lift pump can't draw enough fuel from the tank at the back of the truck, or it just can't draw fuel that far and push it through a plugged filter at the same time. I would start by changing your fuel filter unless you have and didn't mention it.

 

[KansasIDI]

I bought an 87 F-250 with a Banks turbo kit about a year and a half ago, and it ran long enough to test drive and drive 3.5 hours home, but died shortly after and I have been trying to get it started again ever since (aside from waiting for parts and ignoring it for a while cause I got too frustrated with it). It sat for several years before I bought it, and I didn't realize at the time but the rear tank was full of rust, and I ended up driving it that way until it wouldn't start anymore. I took both tanks out and the pickups were broken off and laying in the bottom of the tank, so I replaced the rear tank with a new one, cleaned the front one, replaced both pickups with sumps that draw fuel from the bottom of the tank, ran new nylon lines up to the selector valve, replaced the selector valve with a new one, replaced the lift pump, and both fuel filters. Now, if I try to start it, it will get fuel to come out of the lift pump, and around the injectors lines if I loosen them, but it will only run for about 20 seconds before it dies. I did not change the glow plugs, but as far as I can tell they are working normally, the light stays on as long as I would expect, and I can hear the relay click when it turns off. If I put a line directly from the lift pump into a can of diesel, it will start and run at 1500-2000 RPM with the accelerator on the floor, but will die otherwise. What do I do now? I am thinking the nasty fuel may have ruined the injector pump and injectors, in which case I think I am done trying to fix it, but I really have no diesel knowledge or experience except for some old Mercedes which never had any problems related to being diesel powered while I had them, and I don't want to sell the truck for half what I paid for it if I am missing an easy fix.

That doesn’t sound good. Makes me wonder if it isn’t the lift pump. Maybe plumb a gauge into your fuel system to see if your lift pump actually works, the quality has trailed wayyy off recently… that and glow plugs. I put 4 sets of glow plugs in my 6.9, Beru Motorcraft, inside of 3 months. And 3 fuel pumps over about 5 months…

Quality just ain’t there. China will make whatever quality you pay for, my guess is they ain’t payin em much…

 

[Old Goat]

Does the 87 have the Water/Fuel filter next to the Brake Booster like the 86 does?
If so, that could be a air intrusion area, they were a problem.
Mine was already by passed with the 2 fuel hoses connected together.

If you replace the Fuel Filter, be sure to fill it before screwing it on.
You can use ATF or any of the Diesel fuel additives, You don`t want to dump fuel into it from a dirty fuel can.

I doubt the old fuel messed things up, the Fuel Filter is there to catch any dirt.
There is a fine mesh screen at the inlet of the IP also.

I don`t care if the relay clicks or the light flashes etc... test the GP`s by removing each wire to them, Use a test light. connect the alligator clip to Batt +, then put the poky thing to each GP Spade. Light comes on, then you know for sure it is working.

A DVM testing the OHM reading is another way, don`t remember what it suppose to be, someone smarter than me will chime in.

You will get it going, don`t give up.


Goat

 

[FrozenMerc]

I agree that your problem is most likely fuel supply as others have suggested. However, I offer the following story as a word of caution. I bought my truck ('85 F350, 6.9) back in 2016. I rented a car, drove out to the Virginia / Kentucky border, hopped in and started heading back to Minnesota. I made it to Lafayette, IN before the injection pump gave out. My truck had also sat for quite some time before I bought it and the seals had gone out in the injection pump. The last 10 / 15 miles before Lafayette, you could tell the engine wasn't getting enough fuel. I pulled over in a mall parking lot, and the engine died. After that, it would only start and idle for a few seconds, and would not rev up. The injection pump just couldn't provide enough fuel to bring the rpm's up under load. The local Ford stealership put a new (reman) pump on and it was good to go. Given the crap in your tank, and the fact that the truck sat, I would look at the injection pump if the rest of the fuel system is in good shape.

 

[TK87_6_9]

I did change the fuel filter as well (both the factory one and the second one that has been added). The water separator was replaced with a Racor one apparently, even bypassing it the truck still won't stay running. I am going to temporarily install an electric pump just to see if that changes anything. What do you do for a reliable lift pump? Just keep swapping them until one works, then carry a spare?

 

[KansasIDI]

I did change the fuel filter as well (both the factory one and the second one that has been added). The water separator was replaced with a Racor one apparently, even bypassing it the truck still won't stay running. I am going to temporarily install an electric pump just to see if that changes anything. What do you do for a reliable lift pump? Just keep swapping them until one works, then carry a spare?

Just delete the mechanical pump, put in a block off plate, and run a decent electric pump

 

[IDIBRONCO]

Just delete the mechanical pump, put in a block off plate, and run a decent electric pump

Unfortunately, this seems to be about the best option these days. I'm going to do that before even thinking about starting my Ex Wife and I'll most likely be doing this to my Blue Truck when the mechanical one that's on it now dies.

 

[Old Goat]

The way things are going with the supply chain, be best to drag an enclosed trailer behind you full of spare parts.

So far I really haven`t had any thing major fail....yet.
Read the carter Fuel pumps are short lived.
The one`s I see selling on line are in a blue box, found a guy on line selling NOS parts, has a bunch of Carters for various vehicles, and had 2 for the 6.9. Think they were $35 each, Should be here any day. OH, these are in a green box, manybe the originals were in a green box?


Goat

 

[Old Goat]

Well, hot dang. there was a package in the mail box, two Carter Lift Pumps.
One made in Canada, the other U.S.A.
NOS in the Green Box.

These going on the shelf in the shop with the other NOS I have come across.

The one on the truck, I replaced about 2 yrs back because it was wet on the bottom.
Don`t know it it was on there when I bought her or not. Been 10 years.
Replacement got from O`Really`s.


Goat

 

[TK87_6_9]

I am still struggling to get this truck back on the road, I am not sure if I have the skill or patience to finish it though, or if it's worth it. I did manage to solve the issue I originally posted about, it turns out that nothing was actually wrong, what I ended up doing was starting at the fuel filter, disconnect the line coming from the tank and start it from a hose in a can of diesel, then at the fuel pump, then at the water separator, then at the line coming from the back of the truck. Once I did that it runs and I was able to drive it around town for a couple weeks.

Now I have an even worse problem though. It appears that something blew in the fuel return lines and it's pouring diesel out the bottom of the truck, but there are no visible spots where it's leaking. I think it's coming from the line that goes from the last injector to the back of the truck, but since it has a turbo on it, you can't see it. I'm not sure what to do now, it looks like I would have to strip everything off the top of the engine down to just the heads to even try to find where it's leaking, but it also doesn't leak unless it's running and I can't start it like that. Is this as huge of a job to fix as it sounds like it will be? With wait times for parts and working during the week I don't think I would be able to get it fixed in less than 6 months, and I am not sure it wouldn't be better to give up on this one and start over with something else. I bought it because I wanted to drive a 4x4 truck, if I just wanted to work on a diesel engine as a project I would get another Mercedes lol, at least they are less frustrating.

 

[IDIBRONCO]

Since it has a Banks turbo and you say that you can't see that return line, I'll assume that you have a big, air box that holds the filter. You'll have to remove that in order to get to the line. It's possible that it's another return line that's leaking instead of that one. I've seen a lot of turbos installed with the line that connects both rows of injectors still running underneath the turbo. Those get to be pretty brittle from all of the heat. I would suspect that one first. It won't be as easy to get to as the one that runs back to the tank, just so you're forewarned. These really are great, reliable trucks once you work out all of the "bugs" that were put in place from previous owners.

 

[gandalf]

I'm going to address the question/problem/possibility that you have a blown return line between cylinders 7 and 8 or the connecting line to the FSV, which starts in that same area. If your turbo is the old non-gated Banks, the one with the big square airbox, then the blown return line is something you can deal with. It won't be a walk in the park, but entirely doable. That airbox is easily removable, and then you just have to fish around and replace lines without really seeing where they are routed. One of the hardest parts is lying across the top of the engine, cursing the hood latch poking you in the belly.

Insofar as dealing with removing the airbox or anything attached to the old Banks turbo, I have the installation manual for that old non-gated Banks. It has a good parts list and schematic. Pictures of where everything attaches are a wonderful help. I'd be happy to send you a copy, email attachment, if you'd like. If so, PM me with you email address.