Exhaust brakes

[Andylad13]

I remember this topic being discussed before, but I forgot the reason. I'm noth thinking of putting one on or anything, It's just been bugging me to not remember the answer.

Why are the exhaust brakes bad for our engines? It might not even be our engines, it may be the powerstrokes that I'm thinking about.

 

[91f2504x4]

I remember this topic being discussed before, but I forgot the reason. I'm noth thinking of putting one on or anything, It's just been bugging me to not remember the answer.

Why are the exhaust brakes bad for our engines? It might not even be our engines, it may be the powerstrokes that I'm thinking about.

A lot of people use the EBPV on the powerstrokes as an exhaust brake and I haven't heard of many problems with them, maybe I just haven't talked to enough people that had them. I am not sure about the IDI's I don't know anyone that has one with an exhaust brake.

 

[Fordsandguns]

I think it has something to do with the exhaust springs being the weak link when using the brake.

 

[NCheek]

I second the assumption of the valvetrain, but for exampl, BD has a table that has acceptable backpressure values for the Ford IDI's, GM IDI's, and they have two designations on the Cummins depending on the strength of the valvesprings installed.

I am sure if the boundaries are exceeded, that bad things could happen, but A buddy of mine has a BD brake on a 99 powerstroke and has no adverse effects. Also, I thought that I heard that Ford said not to use an exhaust brake on the diesels, but many do without harm...

 

[towcat]

the valve springs on our IDI's are rated at 100psi when new from the factory. the potential for floating the valves on a hard brake apply is extremely high.

 

[NCheek]

This is from the BD Brake pdf for the generic remote mount brake. They are available with in cab pressure gauges, and it seems like an exhaust brake wouldn't be harmful if the brake was setup properly, and you watched your gauge...

Using a standard pressure gauge, follow the list below for proper setting, with the engine running at idle and brake turned on.


Vehicle----------------------------------- Lbs.----------------- Pressure @ Idle
Chevy 6.2/6.5L & Ford 6.9/7.3L -----------32lbs.------------------- 8-10 lbs.
Ford Powerstroke & Dodge Cummins ------- 40lbs.------------------ 10-12 lbs.
Dodge Cummins w/ 60lb. exhaust springs -- 60lbs. ------------------ 18-20 lbs.

 

[punkmechanic]

the ebpv is what is used in the strokes (most of the time Gail F'ING banks did it different) and for the most part they work ok and dont destroy too much too fast. They do wear the motor out faster, and our diesels (idi's and strokes) where NOT designed for them. A turbo is one thing, I not actually too sure the turbo doesnt cause enough back pressure to do damage (say 12 psi boost ?).

They can be run and do work but for most the added expence and shortened lifespan dont justify the weak gains they provide.

punk

and yes I have replaced heads on a 7.3 stroke that was attributed to the exhaust brake. 02 excursion with 110k and 7 units on the magnehelic gauge (6 is considered at least rebuildable), barely started cold. guy had a banks brake put on with less than 100 miles on truck. Used it to tow a 2 head horse trailer and was meticulous about his maintenance, all the records are in our shop database. He will no longer use any banks product and recommends to any and all to do the same.

the bill for machine work on the block, new pistons, new heads and new turbo and pedistal with labor was just under 8k iirc.

 

[Penzanse]

Keep it?

Don't mean to hijack the thread. New to the forum. All this info on diesel's makes my head spin. I have just purchased a 1985 f250 lariat turbo 6.9. It has an exhaust brake. I don't tow heavy loads. The exhaust system needs replacing. Should I remove the brake? Thanks!

 

[RLDSL]

Don't mean to hijack the thread. New to the forum. All this info on diesel's makes my head spin. I have just purchased a 1985 f250 lariat turbo 6.9. It has an exhaust brake. I don't tow heavy loads. The exhaust system needs replacing. Should I remove the brake? Thanks!

Personally, I would think all things in moderation. If the thing has a manual transmission, I dont really see why you would need one, if it's got an automatic , someones obviously been using the thing for a while,just use your head and don't let it wind up against the thing going down a hill. People get in trouble on those things because they don't drive their trucks like a truck and they get in trouble. Follow the cardinal rule, GO DOWN THE HILL IN THE SAME GEAR THAT YOU WOULD GO UP IT! and yes I am yelling so many young guys get in these things and think they can power off the top of a hill with a heavy trailer and ride the brakes and whatever supplimental add ons to compensate to make up for a lack of common sense. If you are going down a hill that deep down inside m you know you would have had to down shift to 3rd or 2nd bu the top, then start out off the top in 2nd and you will barely have to touch your brakes all the way to the bottom. These engines have great compression braking all by themselves without any add ons. I don't see an exhauxt brake harming if the rpms are kept down and the thing is only being used as a suppliment to assist in brake wear reduction, but if you try to power off a mountain and ride it like a Jake, up in the rpms to hold it back, you'd be begging for engine problems.

Most of those exhaust brakes either have an adjustment to where you can make them not close all the way or they have a bypass. It would be wise to make sure you have the bypass or set a gap.

Having had a Blue Ox retarder before and knowing how little they do, I almost wonder if the old stock muffler I yanked off my truck a while back that was all clogged with soot had more restriction in it than one of those things

 

[LCAM-01XA]

Follow the cardinal rule, GO DOWN THE HILL IN THE SAME GEAR THAT YOU WOULD GO UP IT! and yes I am yelling so many young guys get in these things and think they can power off the top of a hill with a heavy trailer and ride the brakes and whatever supplimental add ons to compensate to make up for a lack of common sense. If you are going down a hill that deep down inside m you know you would have had to down shift to 3rd or 2nd bu the top, then start out off the top in 2nd and you will barely have to touch your brakes all the way to the bottom. These engines have great compression braking all by themselves without any add ons. I don't see an exhauxt brake harming if the rpms are kept down and the thing is only being used as a suppliment to assist in brake wear reduction, but if you try to power off a mountain and ride it like a Jake, up in the rpms to hold it back, you'd be begging for engine problems.

Exactly! I have noticed that when empty my truck can hit an 8% grade and after two miles of idling at 2400 rpms in 3rd with the converter locked and not touching the brakes I will be moving only 5 mph faster than what I started at on top of the hill. 9% and steeper I need to step on the brakes every so often... And I just found a 2 mile long 13% hill that I'm really itching to try the engine braking on, but I'm pretty sure I'll be taking that one in 2nd

 

[Agnem]

Ever since I chewed up the decel side of my 1st gear syncronizer, I've sworn off using the engine for brakeing for the most part. Brake shoes and drums/discs and rotors are a hell of a lot cheaper and easier to replace than drive train parts. Before I learned this lesson, I pretty much never needed my brakes.

 

[LCAM-01XA]

Mel, it ain't about what's cheaper, it's about the ability to descend a hill at a reasonable speed and 3-4 miles later still have good brakes to come to an emergency halt if needed.

 

[towcat]

mel-
I have 890k chassis miles on my F450 carrier. I only went through three ZF's over the years and I certainly used the trans for decelerating down hills. brakes only decel on a 15k gvw truck is suicide.

 

[RLDSL]

Ever since I chewed up the decel side of my 1st gear syncronizer, I've sworn off using the engine for brakeing for the most part. Brake shoes and drums/discs and rotors are a hell of a lot cheaper and easier to replace than drive train parts. Before I learned this lesson, I pretty much never needed my brakes.

That would be the end result of lubricant failure. Your synchro should not have worn off from engine braking unless you had a lubricant failure. When going down steep grades, thetail section of the box is out of the oil and has to rely on splash lubrication. If you are using a poor quality lubricant, or if the level is low, the thing will run dry and you will get damage. Good quality lubricants can handle the situation as their surface tension tends to draw the lubricant in to places needed, but just using compression braking in itself is not going to damage anything. In fact, if you go out west with a real heavy trailer, you can bet that it will save your life.

Steep angles and poor lubricants make for a bad situation everytime. I once lost a input shaft bearing and scored a gear on a 13 speed tranny on top of a mountain just before the Oregon border because the stupid CA highway patrol had everyone stopped supposedly for snow ( which when we finally got let through, we found there wasn't any But just sitting there with no load at all on the thing at a steep angle combined with a poor quality lubricant was a recipe for disaster.

 

[Penzanse]

Personally, I would think all things in moderation. If the thing has a manual transmission, I dont really see why you would need one, if it's got an automatic ,

That was info that will keep me out of the side of the mountain. Thank you.

It's an auto tranny set up for towing. power everything and they all work! I will leave the brake in when the new exhaust goes in.