Drive shaft questions

[fields_mj]

I have some possible drive shaft issues, and I'm curious on what others think.

I replaced my U joints about a month ago. Truck has 255K on the clock. I had replace one of them early on at about 175K, so this time I did all 3. Pulled the entire drive shaft out. The old U joints came out without much problem, but the new ones went in REALLY easy. Some of them I could push in by hand. The repair was unplanned, and I had planned on heading out that evening with the camper (5K lbs). Instead, I made the repair, and headed out the next day (2 hrs each way). Everything seemed good. I've noticed a bit of a whine over the last few weeks. My guess is that it's coming from the U joints because of the loose fit. Took the camper out again this past weekend. 45 min trip each way. Drivetrain was making a LOT more noise. Any time I was going down a slight hill where there was virtually no load on the driveshaft/tranny, it knocked really bad. When heading up through 2nd and 3rd gear, if I leaned into it some, I could feel it growl some. This morning on the way to work, it was still doing the same thing.

Does this sound like a drive shaft problem?

Also, I've read of others removing the drive shaft from the rear of the transmission, and they mark it to make sure it goes back on the same. I noticed on mine that one of the splines was wider than the others. I could have sworn that I noticed a matching gap so I didn't worry about it. Could that be the source of the problems, and if so is it fixable? What are the odds that something in the transmission (ZF5) has been damaged during this process?

Lastly, how hard is it to come by a decent, complete used driveshaft? This is my daily driver, and having it out of commission while a shop rebuilds the current driveshaft would be VERY challenging for the family. I really need one that's ready to go so that I can install it after work. Suggestions?

Thanks,
Mark

 

[freebird01]

how tight is the slip yoke?

 

[fields_mj]

I hadn't thought of that, but I'll check. I tightened them down pretty good (or so I thought) when I did the U-Joints, but by the time I started cleaning up it was after midnight. Thus anything is possible.

I haven't had a chance to slide under the truck and check anything yet. I rained all weekend (camper took on some noticeable damage), and it absolutely poured for 3 hours when we got home last night. Hopefully tonight the drive way will no longer have standing water in it so I can throw down some cardboard and take a look see.

 

[Greenie]

The U-Joint caps shouldn't go in as easily as you described. With my '93 F-250 the parts counter always had trouble finding the correct U-Joint. I always take a used one in with me so we can check it with a caliper and make sure the new one is exactly the same size as the old one. What the parts book listed wasn't what I needed.

 

[snicklas]

As you know the caps should be tight.....

Not sure how often you get to the Indy Area, but a buddy here at work is a "Jeep Guy"...... one of his good friends runs:

Patterson Driveline and Machine
He is basically at 144 and 37 near Mooresville.

He said to call and talk to Chuck, (He is the owner) (317) 834-3430 and talk to him about what you have going on. He would be able to fix you up.

He is who I will use if/when I need driveline repairs.....

 

[fields_mj]

I'll take a look at that as well. I believe I still have a couple of the caps for the old ones, as well as a new one. I always buy an extra one so that I have spare parts for when one or two of the needle bearings end up at the bottom of the cap during the assembly process. I'll throw a set of mics on them and see if there's a difference. I would image that by the time I clean the old one up, they are probably the same as the new ones. I've done U Joints a few times in the past, and the last time I did these, nothing was out of the ordinary. This time when I took them back out, once they broke free, they came out REAL easy.

Apparently loading the truck up with wet oak and then yanking trees up out of a ravine can be ******* a drive shaft.... Who would have thunk it....

 

[fields_mj]

As you know the caps should be tight.....

Not sure how often you get to the Indy Area, but a buddy here at work is a "Jeep Guy"...... one of his good friends runs:

Patterson Driveline and Machine
He is basically at 144 and 37 near Mooresville.

He said to call and talk to Chuck, (He is the owner) (317) 834-3430 and talk to him about what you have going on. He would be able to fix you up.

He is who I will use if/when I need driveline repairs.....

Thanks!!! I want to take a look at it tonight so that I have more information to give, but I will certainly call him. I work in Spencer, which is still a bit of a drive from Mooresville, but not terrible. If they do good work, it would be worth the drive.

 

[BDCarrillo]

Is your pinion loose? I had similar whine/noise on load changes in a later sterling. PO regeared it but left the old sleeve in. On the downhill the ring gear spins the oinion, flopping it about. On power, the pinion basically screws itself in toward your diff and can chew into the casing.

A dancing pinion can also cause all kinds of goofy angular strain on the u-joints. Just my .02

 

[fields_mj]

Is your pinion loose? I had similar whine/noise on load changes in a later sterling. PO regeared it but left the old sleeve in. On the downhill the ring gear spins the oinion, flopping it about. On power, the pinion basically screws itself in toward your diff and can chew into the casing.

A dancing pinion can also cause all kinds of goofy angular strain on the u-joints. Just my .02

I really hope not, but its possible. I had the gears swapped to 3.55 shortly after I got the truck. I had a local shop do it, and they are the only shop in the area that has a half way decent reputation. They always did good work on my wife's bonneville, and her CRV. After working on about half a dozen things on the truck, I gave up on them. Every single thing they touched on it turned to crap. The rear ring and pinion and the clutch kit are the only things left that they've touched. When they did the gears, they didn't get the mounting bolts tight on the front, and it cost me an entire front axel, hubs and all. That's $5K that I'd like to have back. Guess I always wanted a D60 after all....

What I hear at highway speed on a slight downhill grade sounds like a lot of slop somewhere and the 2 halves are bouncing back and forth. I'm really hoping that its something on the driveshaft. That will cost me less than if it's something in the rear end or the tranny. Not to mention that I can turn the wrench on the drive shaft. I don't trust working on the transmission, or the rear end in my driveway....

 

[BDCarrillo]

Pop the rear driveshaft off and see if the pinion companion flange moves, in any direction. It should rotate a hair, that's the gear backlash.

 

[IDIoit]

your U-joints should be pressed in, odds are that you have the incorrect ones.
dont feel bad ive done this too.

now my carrier bearing has failed.
may wanna inspect it.

when we replace driveshaft parts, the carrier bearing is too often overlooked.

 

[dunk]

Double check your ujoints. 1330 and 1330f are the same size cross the but F cap is 1/16" larger. You wouldn't get the alrger cap in a smaller yoke but the other way around is possible, though I'd think it would be so loose as something was obviously wrong. I believe typically on these shafts the yokes on teh shaft are 1330 and the yoke on the transfer case and axle are 1330f. So on a two piece rear shaft you'd typically have a straight 1330 joint in the middle and a 1330/1330f on each end. Just going off memory, but that's a possibility.

Aside from that, yoke ears can get worn out, sometimes a failed joint seizes and can spin a bit wearing the yoke larger. You can have new yokes put on your tubes, but at that point I'd just have a new shaft made as tubes are cheap compared to yokes+labor. If you have a new shaft made go 1350 or 1410, I'm a big fan of overkill on driveshafts as I've had plenty of shaft and joint failures. Shock loading kills joints and other drivetrain components. Those tiny 1330 joints can take a lot of torque if youroll into it, but shock them and they snap easy.

Could also be loose pinion at rear. If you replaced the gears you likely have a long pinion, but you never know. I forget if 93 or 94 was the switch to long pinion from the factory. Could also be a sloppy slip joint in the shaft, loose tcase output bearing/yoke. Check for looseness in everything. Tcase in neutral and wheels chocked while under it shaking stuff.

 

[fields_mj]

Well, it didn't rain at all yesterday so I slid under the truck after work and got a bit of a surprise. One of the mounting bolts on the carrier bearing was missing, and the bearing had bent downward at a 90 deg angle. That would be the source of the majority of the noise. I went back in and grabbed a 7/16 bolt and nut. I could bend the bearing back into place by hand, but had to use my bottle jack to move it that last little bit and hold it in place. The whole thing sounds MUCH better now.

I still need to replace the drive shaft, but the urgency has backed off a bit. I've done a lot of machinist work over the years. If the caps are too small on my U-Joints, it's only by a few thou. Some of them are still a light press fit, and some are a nice slip fit. I've been very impressed with the way the U-Joints have held up for me. I heat with firewood, and I wasn't joking about yanking trees out with a couple of tons sitting in the truck bed. I'm in the dirt, so it's not as hard of a shock as if I were yanking on something while on pavement, but the ground is normally frozen so it's still a little ******* things. The trees are normally about a ton each (oak/hickory), and it normally takes 3 or 4 good yanks to move them another 10' or so in order to cut some more off the trunk and take another bite. Not the worse thing in the world, but the drivetrain does get a good workout from time to time.

I don't know about everyone else, but I don't "forget" about the carrier bearing, I intentionally ignore it. I don't have the right tools to change it out, so if/when it goes, the drive shaft has to go somewhere other than my drive way to get it changed Mine still looks okay, but it could be on its way out. When the drive shaft is replaced, it will have a new carrier bearing as well.

Thanks for everyone's advise. It is much appreciated!

BTW - If you happen to drive a newer Jag and you hit a big pot hole, there's a good chance that it will trip the inertia switch killing the engine, locking the transmission in Park, and leaving you stranded in the middle of the road. The reset switch is on the passenger side of the cab down near the floor board. There's an access hole in the trim for the reset. If that blonde last night had been 10 years younger, and I had been single, I think I could have had one heck of an evening.