Cummins swap overrated?

[bird hunter]

I just have to wonder if the time and money involved with swapping a Cummins 5.9 into a Ford F-Series is really worth it? First I must say this post may start a lot of opinion talk. So let's hear it. But seriously, is a little extra low end torque and mpg really worth the effort? I have to disagree. I think the Ford truck is the best, and that the International 6.9/7.3 is a pretty solid engine. Maybe they won't last quite as long as a 5.9 or make as much low end torque or get as good mpg, but how many of you are going to keep your truck for at least 250K after that swap??? I don't know, I just like the idea of improving what the truck was supposed to be. Don't get me wrong, the Cummins 5.9 is an outstanding engine, but I just don't believe it's worth all the extra effort and money to swap one into an F-Series. I believe what was meant to be was meant to be, and I like my '90 F-250 7.3 IDI.

WHAT SAY YOU?

 

[Clayton]

When and if I get the money and find a good one I wanna swap a dt360 in mine. That would be the only swap I'd consider.

 

[Sycostang67]

It seems to me if you are happy with the power and performance of an IDI there is no need for such a swap. Some people just want to make more power than an IDI is capable of but dont want the dodge wrapper around the motor. I think a cummins is easier to work on when placed in a ford. After seeing how far the motor is tucked under the cab of the newer dodge trucks, I thought I was looking at a 4bt, not a 6bt.

 

[gatorman21218]

i think cummins is overrated myself. I think the idi is a strong tough motor fully capable of doing what a 3/4 or 1 ton truck needs to do. If you want to drag race and jack up and pull weighted sleds then by all means do a cummins swap. but if you want a dependable simple to work on engine then stick with ford and the Navistar 6.9/7.3. If i were to do a swap i would drop a Detroit 6v71 or even an 8v92 although i dont know if that will fit.

 

[dyoung14]

No matter what you will never get an engine that has the sound and the heart or the feel that the IDI has, i will never do an engine swap! IDI OR DIE!

 

[lotzagoodstuff]

Sorry guys: I love my old IDI, but I can't agree. Although the Dodge truck itself has many shortcomings, the Cummins motors are all top notch.

Better fuel mileage, more torque, less parts, more dependability. Putting the best engine in the best truck only makes for the best of both worlds.

Just my .02.

 

[82F100SWB]

Is a Cummins swap worth it? Hard to say, it's more than a little bit of a power gain if you don't leave the Cummins stock. However, the time and money investment required to do said swap will pretty much never pay for itself. Performance potential is MUCH higher, and if I had a NICE cherry F-Truck, I'd do the swap in a heartbeat, BUT, I have 2 spare Cummins engines.
As for which engine is better, as far as reliability and ease of maintenance is concerned, comparing my IDI to my first gen, it's pretty much on par. Neither one of them really has any real quirks, and they're both straight forward and simple. Parts cost evens out on normal maintenance stuff, of course the Cummins pump and injectors are more costly, but the maintenance interval is higher.
In all seriousness, my IDI is 100% as reliable as my Cummins, all of the bad stuff they are known for like being hard starters and the like are all maintenance issues, not an issue with the engine itself. A good electric lift pump, good glows and a manual control setup, and it's just as happy on a cold day as my Cummins is.

If you want a nice reliable driver and don't care about running 12 second quarter miles and doing 70 mph uphill in a headwind with 20,000 lbs behind the truck, an IDI will get the job done just fine.
Slow and steady will get the job done every time.

As for not doing a D60 swap, well, that's entirely up to you, but in my experience, a D60 rides, drives handles, and wears tires better... I'm probably going to swap one into my IDI in the not too distant future, the TTB 44 is falling apart.

 

[argve]

having played with both the IDI and a cummins - I'll take a cummins any day. I'm not saying the IDI is junk by any means but me likes to pull a 10k lbs Camper up a 6% grade at 75mph with the cruise set and I like to go fast and rip the tires loose. I tried real hard to get the Enterprise to do that and had a lot of broken parts to show for it.

Now is swapping in a cummins worth it... that is up to the owner and everyone has a different opinion.

I did not experience the downside of the Dodge wrapper as some have experienced - don't know maybe I got a good one. The interior stuff wasn't falling apart and I logged just as many miles on both The Enterprise and the Nanny Goat. I did however dislike the cab space between them CC vs Ext Cab but overall fit and finish was comparable - I never did replace Window motors, door lock motors and such in the dodge as I did with the Enterprise.

Weight capacity was down on the Dodge but then again I was going from a CC Dually to a 3/4 ton single rear wheel so it was expected.

Comparing a Cummins to a IDI is like comparing apples to oranges. Yes they are both diesels but they go about thing differently. I would own either one in my next truck whenever that may come about. I seen bennies to both and seen down falls in both.

As for maintenance - I never had to change out the injection pump but then again it's like comparing apples to oranges - the cummins P pump is oil lubed so gonna last longer - had it needed a injection swap trust me it would have been much more expensive - the life span on them is much much longer but the cost of them is much much higher.

Would I swap one in a Ford truck - yes if I was planning on keeping the truck for many many moons... But to me it's worth it - may not be for worth it for you.... Again to each his own.

 

[GOOSE]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bt8w3qlzZhs

I will never talk down about a Cummins. The engine was built to be a turbo, can make more hp than 3 of the best IDI's combined, sips fuel, and is tough as nails. A P pumped 12 valve is as simple as our IDI's and has less moving parts to wear out.

A very good friend has a '95 12 valve, nv4500, 4x4, extended cab. He bought the truck new and got the hp bug after the warrenty ran out. An IDI with banks turbo gave him a run and back to the performance shop he went. 465-500rwhp and 1200+ftlbs of touque in the end. This was 10-12yrs ago, his truck was cutting edge at the time. Found a guy modding John Deere clutches and put one in, later went to Southbend.
This truck will smolder tires at 60mph and gets 19mpgs around town and 25+ highway. He tows, hauls and daily drives the thing. 100,000mi at this hp level and the engine is perfect. These engines are not over rated, they are that good. My buddy does have a respect for our IDI's and remembers one running along side of him vividly.

I will argue that our Fords are put together better. Our servicable front wheel bearings, locking hubs, and fit & finish are above what Dodge has to offer. Ford's air conditioning and brakes holds up better. How about a crew cab Dodge? What were they thinking?

I could never tear apart an IDI Ford and swap a different engine in. I would tear out a pig gasser and stuff a diesel in any time and in that case a Cummins is a good candidate.

 

[jim_22]

They start in the cold every time, no GP, first crank with one weak battery! No cavitation. But it is a $6K cost to swap roughly, engine plus labor involved. Is it worth it? Of course not.

 

[Darrin Tosh]

Lot of good discussion here,..I have said before and I will say it again, If the Jasper Rebuilt IDI that I installed in my truck was a good one, I would not have swapped the Cummins, I would have kept the IDI, bought the Moose Products, installed a Travis Radiator and would have been done.

I also probably would not have done it if I had not found the perfect Doner truck, a 1985 Ford F350 with a 20K mile Cummins already swapped,with all of the parts that I needed for the my truck.

The biggest thing for me, is that with the Cummins, I can pull the 5th wheel with the Jeep behind it down the highway at 70MPH with the AC on, and the truck works at 75% of its capacity, and never goes over 185 Deg on the temps, Never hits over 950 on the pyro. With the IDI I would have to drive it by the Temp Gauge, it would run up to 220 and I would have to back it down to cool it off.

And YES I plan on putting another 250K on this truck, It is our Retirement Truck and it will get used for years to come.

IS the Cummins Swap Overrated?,...........Hell No,.......

 

[crashnzuk]

I am a Dodge man and own a 1st gen. With that said, I think the only way I'd do a Cummins/Ford swap would be if I ended up with my dad's truck. Otherwise, if I find the need for a crew cab I will find an older Dodge. The Dodge swap is basically plug and play compared to putting an engine in a Ford that wasn't offered from the factory. But, like I said, I am a Dodge man and really like the older Dodge trucks ('93 down). If a guy is going to tow in mountainous terrain, a Cummins is hard to beat in an older truck.
Travis..

 

[82F100SWB]

My first gen only has one battery!
If it's colder than about -25 and I forgot to plug in, I unplug the grids and start it without, they draw enough to suck a group 31 down to the point it won't spin the engine over fast enough at those temps. Just the same as with the IDI I skip the glows and go ether if I do the same thing, as I only run one battery in it too..

As for the Dodge wrapper having it's issues, that's why I have a first gen, KP 60 front, NP205, no unit bearings or CAD on my truck. The newer ones have far more creature comforts, and it is a dated design even compared to my 86 IDI, but, it's a very simple truck.
This is one thing I love about my Cummins:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uz7AWgjRuWs
Just watch that boost guage... Truck is stock other than the pump being monkeyed with and a straight pipe....

 

[BigRigTech]

I love the IDI's for reliability and low repair costs.....Now for big reliable power and torque - Cummins is the way to go. I have a 95 12V from a Ford school bus sitting in my garage wating for some Ford sheet metal to wrap around it....Lately I've been wanting a 92-96 F150 flareside 2wd truck for the 12V, all black front to back, black wheels, tinted windows and 2 chrome stacks.....with a 450-500HP big "C" under the hood....Having said that - I have one IDI powered truck now and another recieving idi power as we speak so more than likely I will own of each for the forseeable future.....No computers, just a linkage between my foot and big smoke.

 

[RLDSL]

Cummins makes great engines, and the Bosch fuel systems on them are about a bazillion times more reliable than the stanadyne junk on the IDI engines ( why International chose to go with stanadyne on these things I have no idea , but for the amount of money involved in doing a conversion it would take a lifetime or three to recover that if you are going to try to use the fuel mileage argument to justify going that route , and come repair time Bosch injection componants can be painful. Normal price for a pump rebuild if you want it done right will be around $1000or more and a set of rebuilt injectors will run you more than a set of new replacements for an IDI

Everything is a trade off. Personally, My truck can haul anything I stick behind it, I can't see doing that kind of swap unless going into competition, or a rich uncle just passed away and left me a *** of cash that was burning a hole in my pocket, and then I'd swap a DT into the thing