Belt Driven Water/Air Intercooled IDI

[plywood]

Not yet but I thought I'd put the idea out there and see if someone gets it together before I do.

While reading about I think it was Ocnorb and his water/air setup and his report of a heat soak under extreme conditions I wondered if the electric water pump wasn't pumping fast enough liquid to shed the heat.

Sooooo,,,, while at the junkyard the other day I noticed an old Audi with a belt driven water pump with probably 5/8 to 3/4 inch lines. Grab one of those, mount it up, maybe grab the radiator too with the electric fan and shroud, and all you need to buy new is the Intercooler and some hose and you have a low lag top mount intercooler with little piping that isn't in front of the engine (other than the fairly small radiator) and plenty of charge air cooling power.

Can not find it now buy somewhere yesterday I saw a youtube video of a setup with intake temp gauges before and after the Intercooler. You can hear the truck accelerate, and the turbo spools up and the charge temp goes over 300 degrees, the post Intercooler temp always stays with a couple degrees of 102 or so, which must have been the ambient temp at the time.

 

[vegas39]

In all my years of engineering direct/indirect evaporative coolers, I have made a simillar heat exchanger setup with chilled water for precooling air and I can say that the biggest issue I see with the air water setup, is not the water pump but I think the heat exchanger is too small.

A bigger water pump is only going to force the water through the exchanger faster but it will not give it a chance to strip the heat out of it.
I too thought about using the air/water setup on my truck but was hoping that maybe a much larger heat exchanger mounted horizontally under the truck somewhere might work better but if it picks up too much heat under there it wont work well either.

 

[plywood]

So I guess the question is whether the radiator for the water/air setup has to be as big as the heat exchanger for the air/air setup to cool as well.

If it has to be the same size as the exchanger, than I guess the only gain would be that there would be much less piping and air volume therefore less lag, which isn't an issue so much for us with towing vehicles, vs. dragracers.

Another thought I had, was to use a scoop, like typ4 put on his hood and do a top mount intercooler something like what the Subaru's have and therefore not impede airflow to the radiator.

I may be repeating stuff that's been talked about one day when I was playing hooky.

 

[ocnorb]

No matter how big the inter-radiator is it cannot get the temperature below ambient plus a few degrees. This is true of air/air or air/water, although air/air does do a slightly better job.

One of the big issues with my setup was that I have no cold air intake. The intercooler was having to deal with underhood temperature air on a 100 degree day- so the intake air temp was probably 150+... not a recipe for a happy motor under any conditions. There will be a CAI on before next summer.

My choice of water/air had more to do with fitment than anything. It fits, and it does not block my A/C condensor one bit.

I think your idea would work great. I've never seen a pump like you are talking about. It would definitely be reliable and save you quite a few $$$$.

 

[plywood]

I knew for sure the pump was offered on fresh water cooled marine engines like the Volvo Penta, so I wanted to look for a likely cheaper automotive app.

With the belt driven pump you could mount the radiator in the bed say for a fifth wheel puller or a truck with stacks and hopefully still have good water flow through the long lines and with an electric fan it might work good for some needs.

Your mention of the non-CIA is part of what makes me think about it since I have aftermarket intake that won't shed water like the airboxes will and I'm concerned with the downpours here that I would get water in the engine, so I actually want to maintain intake under the hood, but have intercooling to negate the hot temps.

 

[ocnorb]

Cool. My idea is to build a box around my current intake and then use a Hypermax CAI to feed it all. Still working the details out.

 

[plywood]

Yeah, I've got a cylinder shaped K&N, can't be that hard to make a cylinder shaped box with a water drain I guess.....

 

[George D.]

So I have a crazy Idea From looking at the DEI catalog that came with my header wrap and this tread what if you used a water to air intercooler and circulated CO2 threw it instead of water?

 

[FordGuy100]

What pressure would you have to keep the CO2 so that it stays liquid? I think it's quite a few PSI (1000+?)

 

[plywood]

Better yet, just sandwich your A/C evap with your Intercooler...

 

[George D.]

No idea what presures would be needed was just a random thought. But DEI make kits that use co2 run threw bulbs in intake too cool the air, heat exchangers cooled by co2 for fuel, and kits that spray co2 on to inter coolers not sure if the system requires the intercooler sprayer to have co2 vent or it just the other components can be used in a sealed system if so in theary it wouldn't be too hard to adapt for a cooler.

Also I would think you would want it in gas form going threw the cooler

 

[snicklas]

Plywood,

I has been a couple of years, but I think the Dodge 2.2L I-4 had an external, self-contained, belt driven water pump. I remember seeing it when we had to replace the timing belt and the drive belts....... it was toward the front side of the car, and driven with a short serpentine belt..... (odd setup, had 3 belts, a V-Belt to the A/C Compressor, A V-Belt to the alt, and a small serpentine to the Water pump, and something else... I think......

 

[vegas39]

Plywood,

I has been a couple of years, but I think the Dodge 2.2L I-4 had an external, self-contained, belt driven water pump. I remember seeing it when we had to replace the timing belt and the drive belts....... it was toward the front side of the car, and driven with a short serpentine belt..... (odd setup, had 3 belts, a V-Belt to the A/C Compressor, A V-Belt to the alt, and a small serpentine to the Water pump, and something else... I think......

Correct, I've owned at least 20 K cars and thats the setup they had. It's been a long time since I've been under the hood of one but if I recall, the alternator and the water pump ran off the serpentine and the a/c had a V belt and the power steering back at the back of the motor had its own V belt.

Infact, the more I sit here and type, thats exactly how it was.

 

[plywood]

Could probably just buy a rebuilt unit for one of those for not too much since it's not an Audi.

I suspect the pulley is a little skinnier, but that can't be too hard to overcome.

Today,,,,it is absolutely dumping rain here, with no end in site.