Scout down, NOT GOOD!

[Dieselcrawler]

if u need a np435, i think a bunch of my buddies have them laying around(70's ford freaks). could probly find ya one. where u loacted in nepa?

 

[6.9poweredscout]

Just north of scranton. Alright let me know a price! Thanks!

-Jon

 

[plywood]

Yeah I drive mine like a 3 spd also first is too low to use. Sometimes I drive it like a 2 speed, ah I love being able to pull out in 3rd haha.

And plywood, ferds drop on the wrong side, I have the longer wheelbased scout. Was 118 I bumped it up to 119.

-Jon

Ahh, foiled again. Check this one out.

http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/cto/1789829358.html

I had an NP435 in my Bronco, if I used first to start on a steep hill I would be at a stop again by the time I got into second

They are supposed to be tough also, I managed to break mine, but was easily fixable, for me the shifter fork rod slider deals got out of whack so I was stuck in first gear, that was a long drive home. Also, second gear synchro spring came undone and went through the gears, it ate it like yummy cheeseburger and kept going for who knows how long.

 

[Dieselcrawler]

u need a 2wd version correct?

 

[6.9poweredscout]

u need a 2wd version correct?

Yessir.

 

[6.9poweredscout]

ouch...failed bearing, guess next time i install a transmission i won't touch it before i put it in....

i'm reallllllly debating a ZF5 now....hmmm

-Jon

 

[Diesel JD]

Maybe I missed something, so please excuse what may be a dumb question but why would he have needed an adapter plate? Even if he used the tranny that came out of the IH, he could have used a Ford bellhousing, unless the IH T-19 was that much different from the Ford version...

Tim I assumed that IH 6.9s and 7.3s didn't have the adapter plate that went from the SAE pattern to the Ford diesel pattern. Looks like Jon actually has the exact same setup as all of us with Ford diesel 4 speed IH engine+SAE-Ford diesel adapter plate+diesel removable bellhousing which as stated bolts to any of the Ford 3 and 4 speed manuals. The reason the ZF5 is diesel specific is that the transmission is 1 piece cast aluminum with an integral bellhousing. That's old news to most of everyone here but just in case there was some confusion. I have never had a proper t19-B behind my 6.9 but I have heard that the gasser gear spread is actually better with the diesel than the close ratio. Actually the only shift I don't like is from 1-2, like Jon and others I typically start in second but I love that granny low when I just want to go slow or get a load moving, or start up a hill. Honestly can't wait for the brownie because I feel like 3rd over would be the best gear a lot of the time in Suburbia, that's when I'm in traffic trying to do 30-35 without crashing into the person in front of me and 4th is lugging the engine and 3rd is wound out. Also 1st over would be a great place to start. 1st is too low to be useful in most situations and 2nd sometimes feels ******* the clutch. The split would make 1st over 5.37:1, still a crawl but you could probably get to 10 mph without redlining the engine.

 

[The Warden]

i'm reallllllly debating a ZF5 now....hmmm

IMHO if this rig is your daily driver and you spend anything like a significant amount of time on the highway, your wallet will thank you in the long run if you go the ZF route. Cheaper than putting in an NV4500, and while the ZF won't be as bulletproof as a T-19, I wouldn't call it weak, either. And, I strongly feel that the overdrive gear is worth it. But, that's your call. FWIW I spent about $2500 buying, rebuilding, and installing my ZF (including a new LuK SMFW kit), and in the 40K that I've driven the truck since, it's easily paid for itself in fuel savings.

Tim I assumed that IH 6.9s and 7.3s didn't have the adapter plate that went from the SAE pattern to the Ford diesel pattern. Looks like Jon actually has the exact same setup as all of us with Ford diesel 4 speed IH engine+SAE-Ford diesel adapter plate+diesel removable bellhousing which as stated bolts to any of the Ford 3 and 4 speed manuals.

Ah, okay...I didn't realize that you didn't know that his drivetrain came out of a Ford. FYI the only diesel ever available from the factory in the Scout II line was the itty-bitty Nissan SD-33/T (which IIRC is what Jon's truck originally had)...the 6.9l/7.3l never made it into anything smaller than a medium-duty truck from an IH factory.

I have never had a proper t19-B behind my 6.9 but I have heard that the gasser gear spread is actually better with the diesel than the close ratio. Actually the only shift I don't like is from 1-2, like Jon and others I typically start in second but I love that granny low when I just want to go slow or get a load moving, or start up a hill. Honestly can't wait for the brownie because I feel like 3rd over would be the best gear a lot of the time in Suburbia, that's when I'm in traffic trying to do 30-35 without crashing into the person in front of me and 4th is lugging the engine and 3rd is wound out. Also 1st over would be a great place to start. 1st is too low to be useful in most situations and 2nd sometimes feels ******* the clutch. The split would make 1st over 5.37:1, still a crawl but you could probably get to 10 mph without redlining the engine.

Your experience here sounds VERY familiar. I don't have any written sources to back this up, but I've heard before that '83 and early '84 trucks either got the gasser T-19 or got some other form of T-19 that had different gear ratios than the "normal" diesel T-19. The best evidence I have to support this is how much differently my truck handles with the ZF than it did with the original T-19. Every source I have seen shows the diesel T-19 and the diesel ZF to have the same ratios for gears 1 to 4. However, comparing the two on my truck, I can tell you right now that, at the very least, 3rd gear was MUCH lower on the T-19 than on the ZF. Your description of how the 3-4 shift goes on your truck is nearly identical to how my T-19 was...and, 1 and 2 were so close to each other that they were practically useless. For this reason, even if the ZF had not had an overdrive gear, the swap would have been worthwhile...the ZF's gears are MUCH better spaced to use the IDI's powerband, and it makes the truck exponentially more pleasant to drive. And, this is why I'm not a fan of swapping a gasser tranny onto an IDI unless it's a purpose-built rig or a diesel tranny's unavailable for whatever reason.

Just my $0.02 on the matter

 

[Diesel JD]

I realized that the 6.9/7.3 didn't come with the Scout, but for all I know he could have gotten the donor out of an S1600 or School bus say. I haven't followed Jon's build thread that well(shame on me, it's an awesome project). I'll have to chew on what you said about the gasser tranny behind the diesel. It works great as long as I'm not right at that 30-35 mph zone where I really want 4th but some slow person is in front of me and I can't afford the rpm drop or either I shift and 4th is a drag. With the 3.55 gears you don't miss the overdrive as much as with the 4.10s, in fact it gets great mileage on the highway if I can manage to not go much over 60 but I usually want to play with the power it now has and wind up closer to 65 or 70 a lot of the time, more like 70-75 if the granny right lane isn't an option for some reason.

 

[The Warden]

I realized that the 6.9/7.3 didn't come with the Scout, but for all I know he could have gotten the donor out of an S1600 or School bus say. I haven't followed Jon's build thread that well(shame on me, it's an awesome project).

Ah, I see no worries...certainly, Jon's project thread is worth the time...he put a lot of time and love into that Terra. I'm jealous I love them old Binders...I need to get me another one someday

I'll have to chew on what you said about the gasser tranny behind the diesel. It works great as long as I'm not right at that 30-35 mph zone where I really want 4th but some slow person is in front of me and I can't afford the rpm drop or either I shift and 4th is a drag. With the 3.55 gears you don't miss the overdrive as much as with the 4.10s, in fact it gets great mileage on the highway if I can manage to not go much over 60 but I usually want to play with the power it now has and wind up closer to 65 or 70 a lot of the time, more like 70-75 if the granny right lane isn't an option for some reason.

That makes sense...IIRC a ZF in 5th with 4.10's is turning about the same RPM as a non-OD tranny with 3.54's is turning in 4th, so it's understandable that you don't miss having an overdrive gear as much as I did. OTOH, I spend enough time empty on the freeway going to and from L.A. that I want to get my RPM's yet lower; hence the Doug Nash unit and, I don't know how many OB members are in your area, but if possible, I'd suggest finagling your way behind the wheel of an IDI with a ZF, and you'll see what I mean about the gear spacing being much more diesel friendly. Maybe you can try and get to the IDI Weekend (someday I'll make the trip out there...)

 

[crashnzuk]

If a guy has gear splitting ability, the gas trans is far superior to the diesel trans. The wide gear splits allow you to use your splitter to get you half gears (as it should be). The ratios in the diesel transmissions are too close to split. On my dad's truck you can only split the 2-3. 3rd gear is so close to 4th (direct) that 3rd over is within a few hundredths of direct. Also, 1st gear is too high to get a load moving on a hill without abusing the clutch. I would really like to get a gasser T-19 in his truck.
Travis..

 

[6.9poweredscout]

yes my engine and trans is out of an f-350 2wd.

thanks for all the compliments guys! i realllly want to do the ZF5 swap but i'm realllly broke now, i need to catch up on bills so i can buy a truck for the snow. does anyone know what ratio the first gear is in the ZF5? i asked in my other thread too but no answer.

thanks guys
-Jon

 

[Diesel JD]

I honestly don't know what first in the ZF is Jon, I think there are a couple different ratios. I can't remember if they have a lot of info about them at Novak or at Bronco Graveyard or not. Also I think any ZF from behind an IDI or a Powerstroke will work, not a ZF6 though they are a different animal and an "advanced project" to be sure.
@ Tim I have driven 2 ZF 5 IDI's: gonecrayzi's F250 N/A 6.9 and Drew's(aka DeepRoots) Moose Pumped, ATS 088 7.3, seems like a fine transmission and much easier to use the clutch on than my mechanical clutched T18, but most of the time I float gears in the T18 once I get moving to save my knees and the bellhousing, I wouldn't dare do that with a ZF5, especially not someone else's but the shift is almost efortless. One thing I did notice is that startying in 2nd on a ZF is not a great idea and that 1st is actually useful in real world situations.

 

[6.9poweredscout]

So let's say I found a '80-'88 f150 2wd with a 4 speed, it would bolt to my bellhousing??

-Jon

 

[Dieselcrawler]

yes.

off topic, how do u get away driving that thing on the road in pa with the tires sticking out lik ethey do in your avatar?