Won't start - week batteries

[fields_mj]

Okay. New pos cables. Great. Ground is suspect. Take a jumper cable and clip it to the block and the neg post. Or even better the starter. It's a quick diagnostic. Can do it to either battery or both or one at a time pretty quick. Disable the Gp controller so you aren't creaming the batteries with the gp's and melting the gp's down.

I suspect if the battery is not grounded well, it won't charge or provide the juice it should.

That was my thinking as well. Made it to NAPA just in time to get the cables. I didn't realize how SMALL 4ga is! Not only are they too small, but the eyelets on the ends are only 3/8", and won't accept the 1/2" mounting bolts that our engines use. Needless to say, they are going back. I may have a good set made at some point. I did remove all the connections on the Grounds, and clean them up as best I could, but it really didn't help much. All the connections looked to be in really good shape other than being covered with dirt, oil, and grease. So I re-landed those and went and got another battery. Truck starts fine now. I'm going to continue to monitor my battery gauge during start up and see what it does. If it doesn't drop over the next few days, I'll likely go ahead and replace the 2nd battery. If it does, then I still have a problem. Maybe the Alternator?

One interesting note. While I had both batteries disconnected, I got a wild hair and ohmed out the positive and negative leads. To my surprise, it was only 2.4 ohms!!! Not Kohms, or Mohms, but just plain ohms. Started pulling wires off the bendix and checking those. Looks like I have a pair of wires that's tied to the same ring that come from up under the dash. Those were the only ones that didn't show an open circuit. I left that ring off when I hooked everything back up to try again (after cleaning ground connections, before new battery), and my guess is that these wires fed the fuse panel because without them everything in the cab was still dead. Hooked them back up, hit the key in cab and everything turned over, but still very slow (no surprise). Ohmed out the leads again and everything showed an open circuit (OL). Kinda wondering if my sloppy Ford steering column/starter key switch isn't shorting out a little bit and draining the batteries during the day.

Going to have to get a newer truck.... next year.... I hope.....

 

[laserjock]

Sounds like you are making progress. I'm surprised it was 2 ohms. 1 of those or more likely about half an ohm was the leads. Resistance in cable that size that length should be nil. Which battery did you replace? The one that was reading low I presume. Like Riot said, on bad battery will torch a good one so keep a close eye on things.

 

[fields_mj]

I don't think I described it correctly. I was checking the resistance between the positive and negative battery clamps. I expected my meter to read OL, but it read 2.4 Ohms instead.

Yes, I replaced the weaker battery. I'll be watching it closely.

 

[icanfixall]

A bad battery pulls down the good battery to the level of the bad battery. Think of 2 batteries as 2 buckets of water with a hose going to each bottom. As long as both batteries are good nothing flows from one to the other. Now lift a bucket and think of that one as the good one the the lower bucket is the bad one. See how they level off the water. Thats what a bad battery does to a good battery. It sucks it down to its bad low level killing the good battery. If you have to replace one battery make sure the one you do not replace is good as the replacement battery by a load test. I know its twice as expensive replacing both batteries but you wont have issues.

 

[laserjock]

I don't think I described it correctly. I was checking the resistance between the positive and negative battery clamps. I expected my meter to read OL, but it read 2.4 Ohms instead.

Yes, I replaced the weaker battery. I'll be watching it closely.

While connected to the battery?

No you said disconnected. Probably reading through the radio or something that has constant power. Finding a power drain can be a real problem. I hope that's not what you are dealing with.

 

[fields_mj]

A bad battery pulls down the good battery to the level of the bad battery. Think of 2 batteries as 2 buckets of water with a hose going to each bottom. As long as both batteries are good nothing flows from one to the other. Now lift a bucket and think of that one as the good one the the lower bucket is the bad one. See how they level off the water. Thats what a bad battery does to a good battery. It sucks it down to its bad low level killing the good battery. If you have to replace one battery make sure the one you do not replace is good as the replacement battery by a load test. I know its twice as expensive replacing both batteries but you wont have issues.

Yes, that's the plan. I'm going to have to fight with Advance Auto to get them to replace the bad battery under warrantee. I'm sure they will tell me that it still tests good. The fact that it's ALWAYS been hooked up in conjunction with the other battery, and yet it shows that it's noticeably different than the other battery during a load test tells me that its not. If I can get them to replace the bad one, I will use the new replacement and exchange it for the older battery that's in the truck now. I'll eat the $150 cost of the first battery. I have a couple of old batteries that are no good that I can use to recover my core charge(s). I feel comfortable that the older battery that's in the truck is still good, but I don't like the idea of having miss matched batteries in the same system. I'll take the old good battery and put it in the garage where I can use it to run a vacuum pump, DC motor, or a winch as needed.

On the power drain, I'm hoping that wasn't the issue either. I am hoping that it's something like the radio, but I'm afraid that it's a relay somewhere that's going bad. After connecting the old batteries back up and turning the truck over, what ever the drain/short was, it went away. Sounds like a relay that's trying to stick. If so, hopefully it was because of the low voltage, and it stays away so long as my batteries are good... There's NO WAY I have the time to track down that kind of electrical problem.

 

[paulzx]

alternator will cause a voltage drain if the diode's are tired, leave it connected over night measure the voltage then doo the same test but disconnect the alternator. it's a slow painfull draw that can run you mad for few days... as the battery, you can put the one is question on charge overnight then see if it actually holds the charge... just put group 31 in it, you'll be happy, and can get good deals on them from truck shops. one other thing that I found on mine, is that the glow plug would come on everytime you turn the key on, used a disconnect/ toggle switch to interrupt the power wire going to relay so when i'm doing short runs engine off engine on, I turn the switch off so it won't cycle every time, that glow plug circuits draws llike 300 amps everytime. poor alternator!!! I just got my alternator rebuilt (3g) cause the gauge in the truck was reading 12-13 volts but at the battery's it was almost was high 13, now the gauge in the truck reads 14 volts plus all the time... you might have combination of issue's that are driving you mad. my alternator bought it brand new 3 years ago, so I would say I got good life considering.

 

[icanfixall]

If an alternator diode bridge fails usually the alternator will feel warm after the engine has cooled down. Thats a cheap easy way to know if a single diode has stayed closed causing the batteries to drain. When the alternator is running the diodes are closed so any charge can be sent to the system. All engines run off the alternator. Not the battery. The battery is used to store enough cranking power to start the engine. Not supply all the lights or sound systems we tend to install.

 

[paulzx]

on another note, I've also had battery trouble also would only get 3 years on set of battery's, the group 78 if that makes sense. Canadian tire top of the line eliminator's to boot, that is another reason why switch to group 31, easy to get, build for heavy duty application (highway tractor) and have loads of reserve and cca. those eliminator battery were about 160 ea Canadian, the group 31 got them on sale for 80$ and they are twice the battery.

 

[riotwarrior]

on another note, I've also had battery trouble also would only get 3 years on set of battery's, the group 78 if that makes sense. Canadian tire top of the line eliminator's to boot, that is another reason why switch to group 31, easy to get, build for heavy duty application (highway tractor) and have loads of reserve and cca. those eliminator battery were about 160 ea Canadian, the group 31 got them on sale for 80$ and they are twice the battery.

Thats why I have two in my truck with stud tops and all custom battery cables both pos and negs...freaking awesome compared to pos parts store crap

Cheap HD and reliable....wow

 

[CDX825]

Your oil leak to me sounds like its either the oil pressure sending unit or something leaking into the valley pan. The valley pan drain runs out and onto the starter. Could also be as simple as a valve cover gasket.

If it was something like a rear main seal the leak would be lower and the stater would most likely be dry.

 

[riotwarrior]

Your oil leak to me sounds like its either the oil pressure sending unit or something leaking into the valley pan. The valley pan drain runs out and onto the starter. Could also be as simple as a valve cover gasket.

If it was something like a rear main seal the leak would be lower and the stater would most likely be dry.

Huh

 

[fields_mj]

It's odd because it will only leak about 2 quarts over the course of time, and then the leak stops. Only time I can smell it is under heavy load, like climbing a hill, or when I'm pulling the camper and staying in 4th gear. I can't find it, and I've had a couple others look for it as well with no luck. Of course, since this has been going on for at least 6 years, EVERYTHING is now covered in oil which makes it even harder to find. With the expectation that the truck will last me another 1 to 3 years, its cheaper and easier to replace the starter up to 3 more times.

 

[fields_mj]

Missed a few posts over the weekend. Thanks for the info on the batteries. I'll look around and see if I can locate some Group 31 batteries. I'm not too far from the interstate and a hand full of truck stops/shops so I would think they should be easy enough to locate.

So far so good. I have to admit that I did fail to mention one detail. I had the IP replaced a couple months ago, and I've had a fuel leak ever since and that's causing hard starts. Been trying to get it back into the shop ever since with no luck. So that's one reason I'm drawing on the batteries so hard. The truck will fire off like normal, but then immediately run out of fuel and I'll have to crank on it for a few sec to get it to fire again. At that point she spits and sputters as she gets the air out. So there is a reason in the back ground that's bringing all of this to the surface. Better now than in Jan when it's -20 though.... Since changing the battery out last week, everything seems to be holding. Made several short trips in town on Fri and Sat with no issues. Sat all day Sunday, and started fine (sans the fuel leak issue) this morning.

I hate to say anything cause I don't want to jinx it, but I believe the Alternator may be stock. I bought the truck in '09, I've put almost 100k on the clock, and have yet to change it. Don't want to either. Tried to remove one of the bolts when I had my very first starter issue, and I don't think those things are going to be coming out any time soon... I need about another 100K out of it while I save up a small fortune to buy a replacement vehicle so odds are that at some point I'll get a chance to find out just how stuck those suckers really are...