Starter Solnoid Shims

[jaluhn83]

Anyone got a couple floating around they could send me? My 'rebuilt' autozone starter has a nice habit of not engaging about 1/3 of the time and I'm pretty sure it's because the solenoid is not adjusted right - it's closing the contact before the gear is engaged. The ring gear is good and the previous starter worked fine... just this one. Rather than fight with them trying to get it exchanged, (I'm sure they'd fight tooth and nail cause I can 'prove' it's not working right.....) I figure I'll just stick another shim in there and it should be fine.... just got to get some.

Thanks,
~John

 

[79jasper]

Long as it's under warranty, they usually don't even test stuff. Least for me.


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[franklin2]

Anyone got a couple floating around they could send me? My 'rebuilt' autozone starter has a nice habit of not engaging about 1/3 of the time and I'm pretty sure it's because the solenoid is not adjusted right - it's closing the contact before the gear is engaged. The ring gear is good and the previous starter worked fine... just this one. Rather than fight with them trying to get it exchanged, (I'm sure they'd fight tooth and nail cause I can 'prove' it's not working right.....) I figure I'll just stick another shim in there and it should be fine.... just got to get some.

Thanks,
~John

Mine does this too once in awhile. Where do you stick the shim? I agree, if you have a starter that works besides that, I would keep it instead of turning it in. You don't know what you may end up with getting another one.

 

[jaluhn83]

Jasper, You've got a good one then. I had to fight tooth and nail to get them to take the dead one back last time around.... they have a system now where the tester is hooked into the computer system and it woln't let the salesman warranty a starter or alternator unless it's got a 'failed' test on record from the test bench..... Since this one would test fine it's be an uphill battle from the start, not to mention trying to explain what its not doing...... not worth it!

Franklin, wear on the ring gear or starter can cause the issue and is most commonly the cause. In my case since it was fine till I replaced the starter and I know darn well the ring gear is fine I can pretty safely conclude it's the starter. The shim goes between the solenoid and the starter gear case. The solenoid has 2 functions - it pulls the lever to engage the pinion and then it closes the contacts to supply power. The lever is connected to the nose of the center section, and the contact is on a spring inside the rear case of the solenoid. If the solenoid is too close to the gear case or something else is out of whack, the contacts will engage before the pinion has traveled far enough causing the grinding. If you move the solenoid slightly further back from the gear case it will cause the lever to travel further before the contacts engage. Or at least, that's the theory..... Never actually messed with it, but I recall seeing some info on adjusting the position for this very reason with a replacement solenoid I bought at one point....

 

[icanfixall]

The starter must be spinning before it engages the crank shaft wheel or it wont have enough torque to turn it. Its not really spinning at full rpm but it is spinning and needs to mesh with the gear. Some may find this hard to believe but look into this before saying it can't be so. I'm not a person that will post something that I heard someone say unless I add that to the post. and even then I usually wont post talk like that.

 

[franklin2]

The starter must be spinning before it engages the crank shaft wheel or it wont have enough torque to turn it. Its not really spinning at full rpm but it is spinning and needs to mesh with the gear. Some may find this hard to believe but look into this before saying it can't be so. I'm not a person that will post something that I heard someone say unless I add that to the post. and even then I usually wont post talk like that.

You are going to have to explain this a little more. I know how most starters work, and on this type of starter we are talking about, the starter motor does not get juice till the solenoid slides back enough to bump against the copper washer and make the contacts between the large battery post and the starter motor post. It works just like a Chevy starter. The gear does not turn till it's in the flywheel teeth.

I know most all the old Fords used a different setup, where the starter motor was getting power while the gear was sliding forward, since they really did not use a true "solenoid" they used a "starter relay" mounted on the inner fender, (though most people still call this a solenoid). After being used to the Chevy type starter you look at the Ford setup and wonder how it all worked but it did work pretty good.

 

[typ4]

actually the solenoid bleeds some current to the brushes to get the motor barely turning, then as the drive gets in there it hits the high current contacts for full power to the starter motor.

 

[franklin2]

actually the solenoid bleeds some current to the brushes to get the motor barely turning, then as the drive gets in there it hits the high current contacts for full power to the starter motor.

Ok, I am still listening and trying to learn. How does this small current get to the motor windings? Is there a tap to the windings I am missing? The only spot I know of where the motor windings get power is the tab that sticks up out of the motor and that's the one that the bolt goes through to the solenoid. Is there something inside the solenoid that bleeds a little current to this tab? All I have ever seen where the two large copper heads that the washer bumps against.

The more I think about it, if they grounded the solenoid windings through the starter motor tab instead of the metal ground on the solenoid housing, that possibly this would give the affect you are mentioning. Is that the way they do it?