Ring gear advice, too far gone or different type of starter needed?

[belacile]

I recently bought an old 1984 6.9 idi, C6 for $1500. The truck came with a new starter. My guess is it was the cheapest one found on ebay or rockauto. I am not sure what remanufactured brand it is, but it looks like the old direct drive kind. As you can see from the pictures, the ring gear has some teeth that are worn. The starter zings every third or fourth start. It looks like the options are replace ring gear or get a starter that has the bendix more fully engaged before it starts. A long time ago, apparently there was a TSB on the 1984 6.9's about replacing the starter with a newer version to solve the issue of the bendix not fully engaging.

From the looks of the ring gear, is it worth a shot to install a starter that will engage more fully with the ring gear? If so, what starter would be recommended?

If it isn't worth it to try that route, do I have to drop the whole transmission to get to the ring gear, or is there enough room to drop and push the transmission without disconnecting speed sensor, electrical, linkeages? Finally is the ring gear a part that is still produced or do I need to get one from a junkyard?

Thanks for the advice.

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[Black dawg]

In my experience with these, the old delco starter needs a nearly perfect ring gear to function, with the newer mitsubishi being slightly better at dealing with worn gears. I have had several of these trucks that would have the intermittent grind, with the mitsu starter, never grind again using a nippondenso style starter. THat gear is pretty rough, but I have seen a nippondenso work with that much damage.

 

[belacile]

Thank you for the reply. I pulled the starter to look at the starter hole and bendix gear. This is the starter that was put in. It looks to be a mitsubishi unit reman in Malaysia. According to google, this is reman unit is sold by O'Reilly's. For some reason, O'Reilly's part selector indicates that this starter does NOT fit the '84 F250 IDI 6.9. This fits 1986 and up 6.9's and 7.3's. Not sure what is up with that. Is there something peculiar about the 1984 6.9's that call for a different starter? The first post's photos of the partial ring gear were from the inspection plate. These are from the starter hole. Also, I felt for some metal bits at the bottom of the starter hole, and this was found, and look to be locating pins:

 

[XOLATEM]

I could be wrong but those pins look like the actual rollers from the first starter...the one-way clutch that drives the pinion

 

[IDIBRONCO]

A long time ago, apparently there was a TSB on the 1984 6.9's about replacing the starter with a newer version to solve the issue of the bendix not fully engaging.

My guess is that this would have also applied to the 1983 model year.

If it isn't worth it to try that route, do I have to drop the whole transmission to get to the ring gear,

Yes

or is there enough room to drop and push the transmission without disconnecting speed sensor, electrical, linkeages?

I've never tried, but I doubt it.

Finally is the ring gear a part that is still produced or do I need to get one from a junkyard?

I did a quick search on Rock Auto. I could find new flywheels and ring gears listed for a manual transmission, but not for a C6. If you have to go that route, I'd try to get an entire flywheel and not worry about the ring gear.

Is there something peculiar about the 1984 6.9's that call for a different starter?

As far as I know, every type of IDI starter will work on every type and year of IDI engine. Probably what's different is that the 83 and at least some of the 84 year trucks came with the direct drive AC Delco starters. The people behind the counters don't know the difference because the computers don't tell them the difference. The computers don't tell them the difference because they weren't programmed to know the difference. Whoever wrote the programs either didn't know the differences, didn't care about the differences, or maybe both.

Also, I felt for some metal bits at the bottom of the starter hole, and this was found, and look to be locating pins:

My guess is that these parts and the damage to your ring gear are all from the original AC Delco style of starter which were known for chewing up ring gears. This Mitsubishi starter was put on to try to make up for the damage caused by the old starter. The teeth on the newer starter look pretty chewed up to me and that would have been caused by the damage to the ring gear.

 

[Knuckledragger]

There are two answers.
(1) if you do not want to take things apart too much, there is the relay solution. Get a heavy duty relay and install a push button for the starter motor. First, turn the key to engage the bendix, then push the button. This system will fully engage the pinion on whatever is left of the ring gear teeth.

(2) the more work, but better results solution. These diesel engines stop at only 4 places on the rotating mass. If you look at the ring gear, you will see that there are only for areas that have worn or damaged teeth. Ford used to sell the ring gears for about $70, I don't know if they are still available. If not, pull the flywheel and mark the ring gear and flywheel body together. Remove the ring gear and reinstall after rotating it 45 degrees. You now have new teeth to grind off with your new starter!

This is not just me blowing smoke. I have done both of these solutions. You could also look at pick-n-pull yards for a flywheel (or ring gear) with less damage.

 

[XOLATEM]

Wait just a minute...doesn't this set-up use a heavy cast-iron flywheel with a steel ring gear and the torque convertor is bolted to a flex plate that does not have a ring gear welded to it..? when you install the flywheel the flexplate is sandwiched in there, too.

I'll bet that the manual trans ring gear will work....

If you take it apart...(you have to, anyway) you will see what I am talking about...knock the ring gear off and compare it to the stick ring gear.

Just a dim memory of one I fixed and installed while water was pouring into the shop one night during hurricane Isabel...

I could be wrong...but I am 85% sure that I am right.

 

[Jesus Freak]

Wait just a minute...doesn't this set-up use a heavy cast-iron flywheel with a steel ring gear and the torque convertor is bolted to a flex plate that does not have a ring gear welded to it..? when you install the flywheel the flexplate is sandwiched in there, too.

I'll bet that the manual trans ring gear will work....

If you take it apart...(you have to, anyway) you will see what I am talking about...knock the ring gear off and compare it to the stick ring gear.

Just a dim memory of one I fixed and installed while water was pouring into the shop one night during hurricane Isabel...

I could be wrong...but I am 85% sure that I am right.

That "feels" correct.

 

[1mouse3]

One the parts 7.3 I have bought, came with a flexplate that came with a spacer.

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looking around I see another vershion and this looks to be the one you have.

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I see this one for sale, this one has a thinker center so is less likely to snap.

flex plate


Edit: found another list but you would be short the spacer

flex plate

 

[typ4]

I recently bought an old 1984 6.9 idi, C6 for $1500. The truck came with a new starter. My guess is it was the cheapest one found on ebay or rockauto. I am not sure what remanufactured brand it is, but it looks like the old direct drive kind. As you can see from the pictures, the ring gear has some teeth that are worn. The starter zings every third or fourth start. It looks like the options are replace ring gear or get a starter that has the bendix more fully engaged before it starts. A long time ago, apparently there was a TSB on the 1984 6.9's about replacing the starter with a newer version to solve the issue of the bendix not fully engaging.

From the looks of the ring gear, is it worth a shot to install a starter that will engage more fully with the ring gear? If so, what starter would be recommended?

If it isn't worth it to try that route, do I have to drop the whole transmission to get to the ring gear, or is there enough room to drop and push the transmission without disconnecting speed sensor, electrical, linkeages? Finally is the ring gear a part that is still produced or do I need to get one from a junkyard?

Thanks for the advice.

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Did you get this solved?
I have 2 of these flywheels in good shape, In the scrap load.
you pay the ride and one is yours.