Question for you guys running Typ4 cams

[laserjock]

I'm trying to decide what route I'm going to go for my engine. One of the things a builder asked me was if I were going to change valve springs to go with the performance cam. I know you typically run a stouter spring with a higher lift cam but if I understand this correctly this cam is reprofiled, so the lift should be the same just not the durations. Is that correct? So you guys that are running this cam did you do valve springs too?

Russ, do you have a recommendation?

Thanks!

 

[icanfixall]

In general terms yes. A higher lift cam usually gets a stronger spring. Many here with the typ4 cam use the 910 springs and others use the oem springs with no issues. Its true the oem cam is reprofiled but getting to deep into that machining will bore the socks off many here. Plus I really don't have all the info on it. If you can afford a set of custom aluminum roller rockers from Harlam Sharp at $800.00 per set of 16 you will really be doing the valves and hp of your engine a big favor.

 

[laserjock]

Gary, I'm not sure that's in the budget. Not right now anyway. Having never really had an IDI and worked one much, my plan is to try to give it a fair shake as far as this rebuild goes but I don't really want to go crazy. Not that I think a set of valve springs is crazy but one has to draw the line somewhere and that's what I'm trying to decide right now. Where am I going to draw the line. As it is right now, for a complete rebuild if I do it myself or pick up a customized reman, I'm looking at about 4k in the motor by the time I get it sealed up. I talked to Promar and they will custom build with the parts I asked for a small fee. It's really pretty reasonable on top of the standard long block cost. Doing a little math and looking at what a rebuild kit and assorted machining costs, I'm not sure I can do it for that and it sure won't have a warranty. I could go ultra cheap and just reseal one of the motors I have but, I have taken this truck to a bare frame and it just doesn't seem right to go ultra cheap on the motor especially if I'm going to through a pump, injectors and turbo on it.

 

[typ4]

I use oem with a 30 thou shim under them. I can get them if you like. I am out of shims though.

 

[FORDF250HDXLT]

4 grand into an old idi engine.....ouch.that's really steep brother.i just payed less for a whole f450 idi truck with a working 16' dump.not that,that's the norm (and not that it's turn key ready) but the point is,you can score whole used idi engines for under 1k that could very well outlast your truck.have you looked recently at what 4k will buy for a whole truck locally?

 

[typ4]

Well , lets see, 4 grand for an engine in a , Im guessing, restored truck. and no monthly payment when done, and said engine will go 100k with nothing but oil changes. sounds pretty cheap to me.
Also most used engines suck . Im hoping the one i bought is good, if not ill replace it.

 

[FORDF250HDXLT]

4 grand sounds cheap for an idi engine Russ? come on man lol.she had better last at least the 300k life expectancy or longer for 4k.id be ripping if i tossed 4k into an engine and just got 100k miles out of 'er as im sure all here would.

 

[laserjock]

Trust me. I thought it was a little nuts too. When you start adding up parts, it goes fast. I like to think I'm somewhere in the middle of the road when it comes to stupidity.

Rebuild kit ~$1400
resleeve ~ $1600 (200 per hole to sleeve and bore) (I have two blocks with no history so its a safe play).
head studs ~$375
machine work ~500-1000 depending on what else needs done

misc seals and stuff im guessing ~250
cost of the cam ~200 (or whatever they are these days)

It adds up really quick. Really the only thing I could scimp on is the sleeving. For about $600 over the typical longblock cost from Promar I can have them do all the upgrades with warranty. Then its accesories and seal the top and bottom.

I have two running engines. I could just reseal either one of them and run it I suppose but it just doesn't seem logical to do that. My target price for the completed project was 12-14 k and I think I'm going to be real close to that even with the extra in the motor. I don't know. I'm not commited to anything yet but decision point is coming soon (I hope).

Help me out here. Besided the shear obsurdity of the dollar figure, what's the counter argument.

 

[riotwarrior]

I'm with Russ on this, 4K for a NEW engine, in a restored/rebuilt truck...NO PAYMENT, truck as you would have it. Heck even if you go over budget and have to use some credit for a short while, so long as pay it down fast, you have no 300 or more a Mo truck payment for 5 years...then ya...KUDOS to you!!!

I'd order some 910's and be done. Save for Harland Sharps. If Promar will build it with studs and a cam of choice and balance etc why not get one with a warranty? In the long run it's time/$ well spent. Send them the IP and Injectors of choice and be done! Or just get a Long Block add IP and injectors and turbo of choice!

JM2CW

Paint it pink for cancer awareness too!

 

[Hyde]

I have Comp 910s shimmed .030, that was with the stock cam but planning an R&D cam next time around

 

[FORDF250HDXLT]

I have two running engines. I could just reseal either one of them and run it I suppose but it just doesn't seem logical to do that. My target price for the completed project was 12-14 k and I think I'm going to be real close to that even with the extra in the motor. I don't know. I'm not commited to anything yet but decision point is coming soon (I hope).
Help me out here. Besided the shear obsurdity of the dollar figure, what's the counter argument.

do you have a bunch of pics of the truck inside and out? how many miles on it overall? is this the '91 in the sig? how long have you owned it? are you emotionally attached? how long do you see yourself owning this truck?
what will the truck be used for,work or play? %?
so basically you'll have 4k into a basic reman n/a idi when done,save for an reground cam,otherwise stock?

remember it's your coin.it's very very easy for others to say,oh sure go ahead,it's only $ when it's not theirs.

describe your reasons for thinking dropping one of your already owned engines (which stand you nothing at this point) would be illogical to drop in this truck? high miles? do you fear they were neglected? do you take long trips across country where a blown engine would be devastating,or just a 100 mile max tow home,and another engine sat in the following weekend wouldn't be the end of the world? are they down on power,oil burners etc.etc.fill us in on their history.

 

[laserjock]

Yeah, it's the 91 in my sig. I've had it almost exactly a year. It is currently a bare frame starting to go back together in my garage. Emotional attachment, not really. I bought it after I had been looking for a while because it had most of the stuff I wanted. It was already a 5 speed (hard to find around here for some reason) it was an XLT truck so it had the creature comforts. I wasn't planning a frame off resto... it just sorta happened because I kept finding surprises the deeper I dug into it. It's not getting a show car resto by any means but it will be solid. Build thread is here : http://www.oilburners.net/forums/showthread.php?63615-Project-Big-Red

Your point is well taken, I'm good at spending other peoples money too.

I've had these vintage trucks before but never a diesel so that aspect is all new to me. I come and ask opinion so I can try to make a somewhat educated decision.

 

[6.9poweredscout]

don't feel bad, I had almost $8,000 into my N/A idi in my scout, mostly because I was young and dumb.....

 

[laserjock]

To the end of your post, sorry I missed that part, I essentially have no history on either engine. I test drove them both minimally. I ran them around the yard once in a while to circulate the fluids but besides that I don't have anything to go on. I checked the coolant in both of them. One of them read low for the SCA the other had none. One had about 186k on it, the other was unknown miles. There was no discernable "chuff" although while they were still running units in trucks, I'm not sure I would have been able to identify a chuff appropriately. I haven't torn either of them down to see what's going on yet. I plan on cleaning them up and at least pulling valve covers to see if I can tell if anything interesting is happening. Part of my goal for the project is uber reliablity because where I am now, I don't have my "rescue team" anymore. I want to travel some and maybe pull a trailer cross country at some point so I would like reliablity. I know that's a sliding scale.

 

[FORDF250HDXLT]

ok i just read your build thread.i don't want to offend you but it's a truck i would have passed on for the foundation.as someone else there stated,there are no shortage of these trucks out there.with all that said,it looks like your doing a super job and having fun! i say keep at it now.it's going to be a nice truck when done and it'll make ya proud.
i see some key things there that scream hell no,this truck isn't worth a 4k reman n/a idi engine plus the turbo and intercooler costs on top of that.those two vital things are; the ownership duration plans are too short.your building up a truck you won't be keeping long and getting into a crew cab eventually.true you could swap it,but plans and years change things.by the time your ready for that,you could very well be ready to move away from the old idi by then too.(i know,i know fans.it's hard to believe this thing happens lol.)
plus you mention the trucks just going to be driven but a few thousands mile per year.
with the condition of the truck,the age,the plans,the most obvious,clear logical choice that i personally would do,without a second thought,would be to grab one of your already good running engines,install the cam from Russ,and search for a used turbo.put her together and i think the odds are the engine outlasts what you have planned for the truck and then move on to a newer truck.
in the end,it's on you,but i suggest you don't spend the 6-8 grand into an idi and just have a couple hundred hp engine,that would likely last you as long as a used engine would for your couple thousand miles per year.
there are members here who purely run used engines for business and get super high multi thousands miles out of these things.it's your coin.good luck either way.