Powder coating vs POR-15

[3/4 Ton-O-Fun]

Hello all!

Does anyone have any side by side examples/experience of powder coating and POR-15?

I am planning on a full strip down & build up of my '90 and want to do the frame up right. I was planning on using a local chem dipper then powder coating, but if POR-15 is cheaper and better I will use that.

First post!

 

[86truckpull]

powder coat is way stronger but por 15 is alot cheaper

 

[alienturtle]

Welcome to the forum! There are many many great minds here. I dont know much about POR-15. Here is a post that icanfixall found. It is a frame that has been re done as it looks like you want to do. If you read a couple posts down someone said that they used POR-15 to do it. Maybe these pics will help you out Good luck

http://www.oilburners.net/forums/showthread.php?t=49788

 

[G. Mann]

From my discussions with power coat folks Chem dip doesn't do the etch they need for power coat to do right. In fact, they insisted they do sandblasting of a frame themselves so it would come out to their satisfaction.... I turned them loose and it came out perfect.
Total cost was actually less for them to do it all in house than for me to take the frame one place for chem dip / rinse then carry it to power coat folks.

Talk to your local power coat folks.. times are tough and everyone is hungry for work.. bet they will deal with you right.

 

[freebird01]

the only problem with powder coating is WHEN you get a stone chip (its a truck...your going to drive it...resistance is futile!)

rust will start in one spot and eventually it will creep along under the powder coating until you can pull it off in sheets.. paint is the best thing for a frame. the auto manufactured use what they call an E-coat. its a coating thats suspended in water simlar to a powder coat but it chemically bonds with the metal better then standard powder coating

 

[Simmonscoating]

well thats what i do.... and powder is the best''' i have done every type of coating on the planet. and if powder is done right it is by far the best. i have done tons of atv frames that just get pounded and the powder rarely chips. just make sure if you go with a powder make sure they put on atleast two coats of a hybrid powder. only way it will come off if you go rock climbing and land straight on your frame. When i get guys who think powder will chip or there might be something better i will shoot a pice of scrap metal with the color they want and i let them hit with a ball pin hammer. "not swinging for the fances just a normal swing the powder sells it self.

 

[david85]

Powder coatings come in many different types and if applied properly (most OEMs do not) it will not ever peel off. Rust around the edges of a scratch, yes, but it will fight tooth and nail every inch of the way. Chrome plating is the same. Older truck bumpers simply don't peel around a scratch but newer ones rust away in as little as 10 years with large flakes delaminating by the time you realize somethings wrong. There are epoxies, zinc rich, and high build versions (10-30 mils) that have incredible hardness ratings (some approaching 100% solids) for industrial marine enviroments.

Cost is a big factor though. Surface prep must be flawless. We aren't just talking blasting the frame down, to do it right, you have to take it down as far as you possibly can (brackets, cross members - everything!) THEN have the parts sand blasted. Any joint between to parts will simply start rusting as soon as you put it back in service.

The quality of the chemical cleaning, etching, application and baking will also affect the outcome and this is where you're really at the mercy of who ever is doing the painting for you. If it comes down to it, by the time you find out the job was fubared, your truck may already be on the road and insured again - so what would you do at that point? Take it back and ask them to redo it?

Personally, I don't think its worth it and would sooner have an assembled frame sandblasted and hot dipped (galvanized) instead. If you can find a facility that can handle an assembly that size, its not as expensive as you might think compared to trying to convince paint to stay on the frame and compared to how much longer it will last in real world salt conditions. Paint works as long as you don't break the seal, Galvanic protection (in fairness some primers and marine paints have similar, but still inferior galvanic properties) will protect the metal for a long time even after its been breached.

I have no experience with por-15 so can't comment on that, but at least it can be touched up and maintained over time.

 

[towtruckdave]

I have seen por-15 look good for a short time and then fail. I am not a believer in it.

On the cheap:
I like to clean most of the rust off with a giant wirewheel and then sandblast the hard to get to spots. Then primer and wheel paint.

The best way:
Prep really good and let the powdercoat guys hook it up. Powdercoat is really nice and strong.

 

[Diesel_brad]

Paint it. ANYTHING will chip. At least with the POR 15 you can touch it up. With powder coating you are screwed

 

[FORDF250HDXLT]

im using POR-15 on my truck.
the imperfections you see is just dirt.i know i should have took a pic of it before driving a few days first.but anyway.it's some tough stuff.
it's not just a paint.it's like a rock hard armor.pretty cool.

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ran out to grab a shot of the cab floor.it's been a couple months and there's still over spray on my exhaust.

 

[RedTruck]

I sandblasted my frame and the top and bottom of the floor of the cab. Originally I etch primed everything, then used Herculiner on it. I wore holes in the herculiner in the cab in a couple of places and got worried about rust. So I litterally peeled it all out of there, and wire wheeled as much of the primer out of the cab as I could (it was in there for about 3 years). Then I did the POR-15 treatment on it. I didn't top coat it and it has sat outside for 3 years without the doors on it. Because I didn't top coat it, it has faded badly. It looks like it should be in terrible shape. It has water standing in the side gutters next to the doors for 3 days after every rainfall. After everything drys up...knock on wood...no rust what-so-ever. I called POR-15 about topcoating it in this condition. They recommend that I roughen up the surface with 120 grit then clean it with marine clean and recoat with POR-15 before topcoating.

If I could do my frame over again. I would use POR-15 in a heartbeat. I would just make sure you top coat it. I would use their frame paint (chassis black I think). I know a few car guys have used it and it works wonders.

If you have the time do a test. Find a reputable powder coat dude and have him coat a scrap piece of metal. Then buy a small container of POR-15 and coat a scrap piece. roughen a spot with sandpaper and stick it in some salt water or coke. Then stick it outside until you're ready to pull the trigger. Depending on where you are located I could provide the POR-15 piece in a little bit. I'm planning to redo the floors within the next 2 weeks.

Good luck,

Paul

 

[TWeatherford]

I researched POR15 pretty heavily and what kept hitting me over and over is how much prep is necessary. Its certainly always best to prep well for any job, but it sounded like the entire frame would have to be bare clean metal to expect the POR to stick and keep rust away for 10-15 years. In the search lots of people recommended Rust Bullet... apparently its about as good and a lot less prep, which mean touch ups could be done without tearing everything apart. I'm going to give it a shot and see how it works for me.

 

[Simmonscoating]

Powder coatings come in many different types and if applied properly (most OEMs do not) it will not ever peel off. Rust around the edges of a scratch, yes, but it will fight tooth and nail every inch of the way. Chrome plating is the same. Older truck bumpers simply don't peel around a scratch but newer ones rust away in as little as 10 years with large flakes delaminating by the time you realize somethings wrong. There are epoxies, zinc rich, and high build versions (10-30 mils) that have incredible hardness ratings (some approaching 100% solids) for industrial marine enviroments.

Cost is a big factor though. Surface prep must be flawless. We aren't just talking blasting the frame down, to do it right, you have to take it down as far as you possibly can (brackets, cross members - everything!) THEN have the parts sand blasted. Any joint between to parts will simply start rusting as soon as you put it back in service.

The quality of the chemical cleaning, etching, application and baking will also affect the outcome and this is where you're really at the mercy of who ever is doing the painting for you. If it comes down to it, by the time you find out the job was fubared, your truck may already be on the road and insured again - so what would you do at that point? Take it back and ask them to redo it?

Personally, I don't think its worth it and would sooner have an assembled frame sandblasted and hot dipped (galvanized) instead. If you can find a facility that can handle an assembly that size, its not as expensive as you might think compared to trying to convince paint to stay on the frame and compared to how much longer it will last in real world salt conditions. Paint works as long as you don't break the seal, Galvanic protection (in fairness some primers and marine paints have similar, but still inferior galvanic properties) will protect the metal for a long time even after its been breached.

I have no experience with por-15 so can't comment on that, but at least it can be touched up and maintained over time.

david is right the biggest problem with powder is the prep most shops will do what he said. if not they will not be in buis long because the powder will fail in about 1 year. If your not building a show truck i would diff do the por-15 it will save you a ton of cash and you dont hav to strip the frame down to bare. spend the money in the motor. just make sure to knock off all scale rust por-15 will not cure that good luck.

 

[FORDF250HDXLT]

I researched POR15 pretty heavily and what kept hitting me over and over is how much prep is necessary. Its certainly always best to prep well for any job, but it sounded like the entire frame would have to be bare clean metal to expect the POR to stick and keep rust away for 10-15 years. In the search lots of people recommended Rust Bullet... apparently its about as good and a lot less prep, which mean touch ups could be done without tearing everything apart. I'm going to give it a shot and see how it works for me.

"POR-15 is a rust-preventive paint designed for application directly on rusted or seasoned metal surfaces. It dries to a rock-hard, non-porous finish that won't chip, crack, or peel, and it prevents rust from re-occurring by protecting metal from further exposure to moisture."

"POR-15 APPLICATION PROCEDURES

Surface preparation:
Rusted surfaces are best; seasoned metal and sandblasted surfaces are also good."

"POR-15 likes to adhere to surfaces with 'tooth' rather than smooth, glossy surfaces"

however there is a 3 step process that must be followed.it isn't hard.

http://www.por15.com/TechInfo.asp

 

[towtruckdave]

"POR-15 is a rust-preventive paint designed for application directly on rusted or seasoned metal surfaces. It dries to a rock-hard, non-porous finish that won't chip, crack, or peel, and it prevents rust from re-occurring by protecting metal from further exposure to moisture."

"POR-15 APPLICATION PROCEDURES

Surface preparation:
Rusted surfaces are best; seasoned metal and sandblasted surfaces are also good."

"POR-15 likes to adhere to surfaces with 'tooth' rather than smooth, glossy surfaces"

however there is a 3 step process that must be followed.it isn't hard.

http://www.por15.com/TechInfo.asp

Yep, been there, done that, bought the t-shirt. I am telling you, that por-15 will fall off if you put it over rust. When it falls off, there will be more rust under that por-15 than when you started.