parallel turbos

[Nero]

Can confirm, is concrete.

 

[Jesus Freak]

Is there brake fluid in your master cylinder? That's gonna be important ya know....

 

[1mouse3]

Is there brake fluid in your master cylinder? That's gonna be important ya know....

Yes and is blead, Im more worred as to why I had to blead the clutch.

 

[Jesus Freak]

Yes and is blead, Im more worred as to why I had to blead the clutch.

In the picture it looks empty.

 

[1mouse3]

In the picture it looks empty.

Not sure since is hard to tell with it being a little bit faded and there is new fluid. This did decied to start leaking again, I had to crank down the nuts on the ss lines to maybe get them to stop.

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[1mouse3]

Yea, it dose go past and as far as my curiosity gose is 3000rpm but dont want it there. I think she could do like @IDIoit ' s Man-chair-O, if I gave it a little bit more fuel. Before I go about turning up the fuel, need to get the custom dispaly panel set up for egt.



The way they work is not as predicted, its a progessive ramp with steps and I like how it is with the 3.55 gears. This is the steps of what happens...

~1400 - bellow this point there is something but need to be easy off the clutch, so to have a soft shift without any sort of shutter/chugging that gives feeling the drive train could be trying to move around. She will crawl up a grade with ease and no issue of take off, this is with enough weight to soften ton and a half springs.

~1500-2300 - In this area, I think the turbo is active but is lazzy. It will get moving but still slow to progress, just not as bad and will get out of its own way. There is no smoke out the pipes if I give it here, making me think needs a little bit more fuel.

~2300-2500 - There is now some go, but dont really hear the turbo yet. Im still looking for smoke here and not seeing any yet. This area is fine to shift, if after a smooth gentle motion.

~2500-2800 - I am getting a whistle now and some more go-go. Shifting here gives kwik motion, but the spread leaves a little need at the start of the next gear.

~2800 - Above this is more whistle and she is asking to send. I dont intend to test how far she will send above this, just that its somewhere over 3000rpm.


All and all, Im happy with what the beast I made could do. I dont see need for too much more fuel and think a 90cc ip would do fine, for what I want of her.

I did some investigating on what is going on below 1400rpm, think might be seeing compressor surge but dont know for sure till know boost and egt. So went digging and found someone with twin hx35 turbos on a 6.5, he says that they have 9cm housing but not sure on that. Ether way he says there is a lot of lag low in the rpm range and has to use methanol to find peak boost at 3500rpm. I inquired what he was to do next and is looing to down size to super hx30 turbos.

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So these are turbo I could mix and match to change response, vs the hx35 I have and the know good working T04E.

hx30
46/78mm comp wheel
65/52mm turbine wheel
6cm (~0.41 A/R)

hx32
50/78mm comp wheel
65/52mm turbine wheel
12cm (~0.89 A/R) twin scrool

hy35
54/76mm comp wheel
65/58mm turbine wheel
9cm (~0.65 A/R)

hx35
54/76mm comp wheel
70/60mm turbine wheel
10cm (~0.73 A/R) twin scrool

T04E
56/76mm comp wheel?
0.50 A/R
73.35/57.75mm turbine wheel?
0.63 A/R

So with what I got off the hx35 and what another test subject got, leads me to me to belive that peak boost needs pulled down about 500rpm. I dont really see the super hx30 as a option, since could choke the engine at high rpm according to 4bt fourms and is a bit much of a step down in size. Could make a basterdized hx32 using hy35 turbine housing, hy35 turbine wheel and moded hx30 center section but dont think the turbine wheel is what needs to go done in size. So dug more and found this that should bring my turbine housing down a little, and removes the divider that Im not utilizing. Will need to collect more data before a decision is made.

.63 A/R hx35 turbine housing

 

[Booyah45828]

HY35 has the 9cm2 housings. HX is 12.

If you have hx35's, I'd try using an hy35, as they can be found semi-easily off auto cummins trucks in the 2000-2001, before I'd buy those housings at 260 a pop. The hy exhaust housing will be close to that .63 you linked.

I've got an hy35 under the bench right now actually.

IDK what @IDIoit runs currently, but hopefully he chimes in. I want to say he tried powerstroke turbos first, and they were lazy pos's.

 

[1mouse3]

HY35 has the 9cm2 housings. HX is 12.

If you have hx35's, I'd try using an hy35, as they can be found semi-easily off auto cummins trucks in the 2000-2001, before I'd buy those housings at 260 a pop. The hy exhaust housing will be close to that .63 you linked.

I've got an hy35 under the bench right now actually.

IDK what @IDIoit runs currently, but hopefully he chimes in. I want to say he tried powerstroke turbos first, and they were lazy pos's.

I have this turbine housing on my hx35's

10cm hx35 turbine housing


The same person has this for a hy35 and would mean I dont have to change my down pipes. The 90 on the compressor housing of the hy35, would give fitment issue and why would try to coble togther a hx32.

10cm hy35 turbine housing

 

[1mouse3]

IDK what @IDIoit runs currently, but hopefully he chimes in. I want to say he tried powerstroke turbos first, and they were lazy pos's.

Last inqure gave this...

no go on the TP38's been there. done that. peeked 8 psi at 3500 rpms. even with .81 exhaust housings.
i did buy a couple T04e's and i saw a max of 25 psi on a stock turbo calibrated pump, turned up 2-3 flats.
but the bearings/oil seals shat the bed quick.

bought another set of t04e's and sent them to a buddy and he reworked them, they have been great.
i still havnt bought a hot IP for this rig, yet.

as far as putting them behind the truck....
some think its cool. but its the lazy way out IMO.
i prefer to keep them near the engine.

i have deleted my wastegates.
found them to be in the way, and i really dont care to regulate my boost. i want all of it.

Would you happen to know the spec of the t04e you where or the reworked ones?

76 mm/56mm

 

[1mouse3]

After digging more on 4bt forums, I think the turbine is where it needs to be to have a clean burn thru the rpm range but the compressor inducer is too big and needs to be smaller to lower the boost range. Say with the 9cm housing and smaller turbine of the hy35, is not efficent with the 54/76 compressor wheel and will be nothing but excesive heat and minimal boost. Where on the other hand with 8cm housing and even smaller turbine of the hx30, with 50/78 hx35 compressor wheel it become more useable with low to mid but need the waste gate to keep from chocking up top. Now if opposite is done going smaller on the compressor wheel inducer going with a 46/83 from a h1c with a 9cm turbine housing, this will move boost range down vs hx35 with a 54/76 compressor wheel and same turbine housing. So looks like a choice of down size turbine and get a snappy turbo that might choke off, or down size compressor inducer to move the range but keep the clean burn I have. Moveing the range so not in the surge zone down low and keeping the clean burn, would be more favorable to me than all the boost down low.


So that would mean need to make a choice on one these wheel, to get the the turbos into a more usable state.

45.95/81.3 6+6 billet wheel
49.92/78 7+7 billet wheel
49.92/78 6+6 billet wheel

 

[1mouse3]

So revisited this and will try better to understand this...


Choosing a Turbo for your IDI

Okay, so you have you power number goal ready right? Go ahead and divide that by 2.75 For this example, I will be using 300 crank hp, which I get 109.1, this is approximately how many ccs of fuel you will need to make that power. This is the most common power level of idis I build, using my max-effort db2 build which makes around 110 ccs at 3000 rpms, general hp peak. From my experience, you need about 7.5 cfm to burn 1cc of fuel in an idi, so for 300 hp goal we need about 825 cfm minimum, however very few maps show cfm, so we will need to convert that to the most commonly used lbs/min. We can do this by dividing our target cfm by 14.47, which we get about 57 lbs/min. Looking at the map above of the factory turbo, you can see the turbo wasnt even tested past 53 lbs/min so you know instantly that this is not the turbo for you, so lets look at some options.

So there is this variable ploted for cfm and lb/min

250 ÷ 2.75=90.91
90.91 × 7.5=681.82
681.82 ÷ 2=340.91cfm
340.91/ 14.47=23.56lb

Then need to fill in this variable...

Turbo Calculations

14.45 psi at 500 ft
boost is 20 psi

(20 + 14.45) / (14.7 - 1) = 2.51

Pass me and current me are not sure on this data

Turbo Calculations

20psi
3.65 x 2500 x 75 x 2.51 / 81032 = 21.198 lbs/min
6psi
3.65 x 1000 x 75 x 1.49 / 81032 = 5.03 lbs/min

So think where I put a X on these maps is my target and not sure right now on ploting more...


This is the only map I find for a h1c but not sure on the spec of it, it dose look usable tho for what ever compresor size this is...

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As for a hx30, more unkowns but at least 2 different ones. The plot point is off in the land of surge for these and dont see ether being usable...

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These are a few of hx35s and hy35s, the hx35 is not in surge for the most part but the hy35 is all in the surge area. These hx35 would most likely be in the 12-16cm turbine range, not sure where my 10cm turbine and 54/76 billet wheel would move the goal post.

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So looks like the hx30 and hy35, move the goal post to needing more air and fuel to be happy, Where on the other hand with the h1c, it moved to where can work on less air but still have room for more fuel. Say up to 300hp at the crank, that h1c would still be useable. Those new tech billet for the hx35 would change the map some, just need to make a choice between 46mm 32 trim or 50mm 42 trim wheel.

300 / 2.75 = 109.1
109.1 * 7.5 = 818.25
818.25 / 2 = 409.13
409.13 / 14.47 = 28.27

 

[1mouse3]

Found this guy to do some explaning on this wheel..

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So for stock think it gose something like this for I can find of the comp wheel...

56/78 7+7 58lbs/min (hx35 or hy35)
50/78 7+7 46 lbs/min (hc1 or hx35)
46/78 7+7 38-40lbs/min (super hx30)


And the list of billet wheels starting with the one I got...

54/76.62 7+7 - this has boost a little bit high and surge low
50/78 t-4.43 7+7 - this is not much of a step down
46/82 t-4.97 6+6 - this is the odd ball and the next step
50/78 t-4.43 6+6 - then its this at the bottom


So that 46 one may be the one I would want to try.

 

[1mouse3]

I do declare, that this is probably the 46mm one. Most the maps above show the turbo faning off in the way of the orange arrow, but this one looks to wanna build up in direction of the blue arrow. If this is 46mm one then be on a 18cm turbine housing, would think that my 10cm housing could spool this wheel up beter to fill out the map.

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[hacked89]

I don’t know any more than you to say anything, but seems like you are on the right track

 

[1mouse3]

Well here is what I have to share, with what I found digging through data other have shared with 3-4l diesel. First bit of note is a hx35 or h1c with a diverter vlave wired shut on a 12cm housing, there thread did not say wittch the two it was. So a 6cm housing will most likely be too small and willl drive egt up, the 10cm may be right or slight bit too big still.

Well I just returned from a test run with it wired shut as you suggested and it lowered the onset of boost 150/200 rpm's but the real difference was in total boost and the rate of boost build.
This was with fuel settings unchanged EGT's were higher from 1500 to 2000 rpm's by 150*/200* but only 100* above that max boost went from 20 to 32 @ 2500 rpm.
This has me wondering if I am running at 6cm at this point and it will still pull to the governor with the reasonable EGT numbers If it might be worth trying the 8cm housing
As it will fit both my H1C and HX35 I am tempted to take a chance on it it is only about $50.00 more than I have spent on parts to try this.
How can I tell if I am having surge problems other then hearing it,I have spent too many years in the machine shop and not enough of it with hearing protection and am nearly deaf at many frequencies....my family all tell me how cool the turbo sounds and I cant hear it but at least I know that the rest of the world can will the boost gauge bounce around a lot if it is surging?
I am too damn sore from the last 3 days getting it all together to run it to start dis-assembly today so no new info for a day or to

Boost from 1,500 to 2,000 a bit higher under part throttle say 3 or 4 lbs. under full throttle it took a couple of seconds to go from 15 to 30 ti came on real quick. I was thinking about the 8cm without the valve. The more I learn the more I think, I know there is no magic bullet and am just thinking out loud. I have not given up on the valve...yet the jury is still out but I am not wed to it either I just want more usable power when I am in 4 wheel drive without the excess smoke, I guess I want my cake and to eat it too The way it acted a higher rpm's with the valve wired shut has me confused it raised more questions than it answered, and I have enough imagination
and tools to get myself into real trouble under those conditions

One thing I forgot to bring up is that I started this project to get the performance I was getting with the pump turned way up compared to where it is set now
I don't want to draw the attention of the CARB thugs or their militant followers and it just does not seem correct to waste all that fuel, I know that there is a way to do it cleanly but I'm not yet there

I also have found many notes on what parts are needed to cobble together a hx32 if it comes down to that. The state you can get a hx30 with a 6cm turbine, is one that will give full chooch by around 2000rpm and is what I dont want. A hx30 compresor with 9cm hy35 turbine housing and wheel, gives something that sound usable. Where on the other hand a hy35 is a bad match of compresor and turbine, that is terrible inefficient and not a useable option.

I have tried several different turbos in my truck, hx30w9, hx35w12 24v, hy35w9, he351 04.5 and up HO dodge, hx30/hy35w9 and now run a (hx/hy35/)/hx30w9 turbo. I have a 01 hy35 compressor housing, wheel, cartrage, and a hx30 turbine wheel and turbine housing. The 24V hx35 and hy35 use the same compressor wheel. I went with this set up due to the fact my stock hx30w would overboost at the bottom and mid range and underboost at the top end. 10 psi at a level 55-60mph cruise. I could hit 29psi by 2000rpm but could not make any more then that. It felt like I was hitting a wall with it. The hy35 and hybrid seam to make about 20% more power then the hx30. The hx35 had bad compressor surge. The hy35 was a good mid range and top end turbo, but would underboost below 2200rpm. 1-2psi at 55-60 If i was pulling I would hit 26psi on a hill in 3rd but my egt's would run about 1300-1350. I would back out of it to hold 1200, but by that time i would be about 17psi and 75hp less. At 1600 I could only make about 7psi and no power. I needed a turbo with just a little more mid range. About 5psi more at 22-2400rpm, and a lot more bottom. The he351 gave me more upper to top end. Same fuel setting produced 32psi boost, but less bottom end boost. The hydrid I run now works nice, but under 1900rpm is subject to compressor surge. I have a steep hill I drive over every day. and at 1600rpm have a hard time pulling it with out getting surge. It comes in at 17psi at that speed. The higher the rpm the higher the surge limit. About 1900rpm it is no longer a problem.

I am finding that 46mm inducer, weather for a hx30 or hc1 is a good choice on a 9cm. The hy35 turbine in a hx30 and the hx35 size turbine in a hc1, is said its like a 10% difference and 25% from hy35 to hx30 turbine in blade surfice.

H1c

I've put 9cm housings on the H1C and had a good all around turbo that went up to 28psi. Talk to Tims turbo thats where I got the 9cm from. The 12cm in some cases did just as good. On the compressor side I've used the large housing with small wheel that is most often what was used on the step vans or the early nonintercooled 5.9 dodge.

I also found this that make me uncertain of what maps I have above have accurate scale and the same scaling. So am going to need to get things sorted so can log back pressure, exhaust gas temp, boost pressure and intake temp. That need done with what I have and then change compressor wheel to the 46mm one, this will be my starting point and give data to tell if the turbine side is fine.

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