califjeff
Registered User
installing a new pickup tube on my 83 f250, question is use new gasket and sealant or rtv on oil pan?
oil pan gasket or rtv
- Thread starter califjeff
- Start date
GRAY rtv.
icanfixall
Official GMM hand model
RTV.. Never ever use any gasket. The factory never used a gasket and the rtv they used worked very well for many years. A cork or rubber gasket was never a factory design for these engines so why change that now. The rtv seals better than and gasket. Several have tried using a gasket and found it to leak no matter what they did. One member like using a gasket and tells us he has no leaks. Ok, Thats one positive and way too many negatives on using a gasket. I have used the ultra copper plus rtv from Permatex on all my engines for well over 20 years and no leaks. I have seen the blue rtv not set up too so I will never use that stuff. I saw this happen over a 3 year time span too.
Ultra grey is my sealant of choice.
Very few on this forum are in favor of using a gasket. I will say, however, that on our "in vehicle" replacement of an oil pan, we tried THREE times (Black RTV, Gray RTV, and Permatex Ultra, we just could NOT get it to seal. We meticulously cleaned with acetone and brake cleaner, packed all of the crevices full at the front and rear plates, and it just would not seal. It seems MOST do not do the pan in the truck, which may make a difference. We used a cork gasket, coated both surfaces with Permatex #2, and torqued to
15 ft/lbs, and in 2 months of driving, has been good. It doesn't mean we won't try the RTV route again in the future, but for now, this works.
15 ft/lbs, and in 2 months of driving, has been good. It doesn't mean we won't try the RTV route again in the future, but for now, this works.
icanfixall
Official GMM hand model
So where did the rtv seal leak. If it was the corners then it was not cleaned well enough. The problem is getting the surfaces clean. There is no way of doing that when the engine is not turned up so you are looking directly at the surfaces being cleaned. Gravity will pull the cleaner into those impossible corners and wash them out of any oil. Trying to clean against gravity an oily mess will never work. Gravity pulls down any residual oil into the cleaned surfaces.
califjeff
Registered User
My truck had black rtv on it when i removed the oil pan. I was thinking of using the same. I've heard that you put a bead and let it set for 10 minutes and install and i've also heard the same but they use there finger to smooth it out a little and then reinstall. Whats the differance between black and gray?. Use brake parts cleaner on both parts and let dry good?
It was actually at the lower point in the front and rear, and the mains. I know that in MOST cases people do the pans while the engine is out, as it is almost as big a job to pull the pan in the truck as out. In our case, though, since it was a swap into s 79 f-150, the pan was wide open, and out if the truck in 30 minutes. I will say that it MAY have worked o.k. if we had waited longer than 24 hours to cure. The RTV at the thickest point (1/4", maybe) still seemed soft, as we were scraping it from the pan for yet another attempt. Like I say, some day we will brave another attempt, but until then, "if it ain't broke . . .".
icanfixall
Official GMM hand model
There is no place that I know of where the rtv will be 1/4 inch thick between the pan and the engine. Something must be wrong there somewhere.
Sorry, it was 1/4 inch thick at it's thickest point before torquing the bolts. I think that in general if you're doing an oil pan while the engine is in the truck, it will be hard to get it to seal because oil will always work its way back down onto the surface.
In the portion that goes around the front and rear mains, there is a reinforcing rib stamped in the pan. It may not be 1/4" (I did not measure it) but is obviously thicker. In the depth of that stamping is where it still seemed soft.
Fozz
Full Access Member
The engine from the factory came with silicone rtv, probly the prefered method. Use a thick bead to ensure a good seal for machining/clearance imperfections. There is the engine block, a front plate and a rear plate which adds 4 separate corner connections to seal. It's not just one machined surface to seal. Will a gasket work...yes (I've done it). Cork/rubber gaskets have been around forever and work. Will it last leak free as rtv..probly not. If the engine is out of the truck, do it right and use rtv, I just did this last week. I did mine in the truck once in the past and used a gasket...it worked just fine (I've posted how I did it before-you can search it...too lengthy to post sgain). There are purists out there that preach only one way to do things, but your situation, time and finances sometimes dictate alternate methods that can and do work,
I use the ultra black that comes in a airesol can and works like cheese ****. Great stuff. I had my engine hanging upright in the garage and did the work from below. I only cleaned with laquer thinner and a rag, and made sure not to wick any oil back onto the clean surfaces. I've had no issues.
califjeff
Registered User
I called my local ford truck repair shop and he said to use ultra gray rtv and use a thick bead, but he said to make sure its cleaned good before you reinstall. He said he has been doing this for years with no problems
ENSURE both PAN and BLOCK are cleaner than S U R G I C A L L Y clean they must be absolutely zero oil residue on pan or block not a trace or it WILL leak for certain.
There is no two ways about it oil or contaminates on either are the primary cause of leaks more than any other issue when installing a pan.
Even the darn pan bolt holes have to be clean so no oil gets pushed up the threads when you install the bolts causing contamination. BOLTS have to be absolutely spotless....ZERO room for error here.
If it's cleaner than a surgeon's hands and instruments you are golden! Heck clean your tools too! Take no chances...LEAKS SUCK!
JM2CW
Al
E D I T
Then and only then can RTV work correctly....the issue stems from a boundry layer of oil that prevents the silicone from making a physical bond to the parts being assembled.
This is where leaks occur..be it gasket or RTV...however done right RTV has capability to move and allow for differences in expansion/contraction better than a gasket.
Al
There is no two ways about it oil or contaminates on either are the primary cause of leaks more than any other issue when installing a pan.
Even the darn pan bolt holes have to be clean so no oil gets pushed up the threads when you install the bolts causing contamination. BOLTS have to be absolutely spotless....ZERO room for error here.
If it's cleaner than a surgeon's hands and instruments you are golden! Heck clean your tools too! Take no chances...LEAKS SUCK!
JM2CW
Al
E D I T
Then and only then can RTV work correctly....the issue stems from a boundry layer of oil that prevents the silicone from making a physical bond to the parts being assembled.
This is where leaks occur..be it gasket or RTV...however done right RTV has capability to move and allow for differences in expansion/contraction better than a gasket.
Al
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