Navistar stops production of diesels for Ford

[tuckerd1]

I used to work in Ford's casting and engine assembly plants. There's a lot more to building an engine than having a design. There are billions of dollars of special tooling involved. Which is why even if Ford had their own diesel engine designed, it would take quite a while to get it into production. They DO have the capacity and floor space to do it (in Cleveland) it would just take time.

AH, the old engine plant that built the 351 Cleveland?

 

[Mr_Roboto]

Well there are 3 plants on the Cleveland Complex. The first was Engine Plant 1, then Cleveland Casting (originally Cleveland foundry) then Engine Plant 2.

I believe the 351C was assembled in Plant 2, then later the 400 and 351M.

Plant 1 manufactured the 300 I6 and 302.

Engine production moved around so it's hard to say that any one plant "produced" an engine. The engines were simply named after the FIRST plant that produced them, i.e. the 302 is a "Windsor" block but was later produced in Cleveland rather than Windsor.

 

[tonkadoctor]

Engine production moved around so it's hard to say that any one plant "produced" an engine. The engines were simply named after the FIRST plant that produced them, i.e. the 302 is a "Windsor" block but was later produced in Cleveland rather than Windsor.

Yep, I hauled many winsor small bare blocks from Cleveland to the Winsor plant back when I was trailer truckin'...Guess they assemble them up there.

 

[Mr_Roboto]

Well the last years of the 302 were assembled in Cleveland. On weekends I worked on 2 Mold Line which cast the 302, 5.4 and 6.8. This was in 2000, the last 302 was assembled in December 2000.

(The line I normally worked on cast the 3.0L Vulcan and the 4.6).

 

[Freight_Train]

I can vouch for that.There has to be atleast 4 master patters just for the block to make the molds.External,Water Jacket Core,Oiling passages core,Cylinder core,then 3 pattern minimum for EACH head.External,oil and coolant again.Then Intake manifold(2 paterns)Then 2 patterns for the left exhaust manifold then 2 more for the right,Then either a single $2million Stamping die for the Valve covers(if they use the same one each side) or 2-3 maybe more single stage stamping dies,same for the Oil pan,Valley pan,Then you gotta design the injection system,Wiring harness,Molds and patterns for the accessory brackets,Computer,blaa blaa blaa.Heck,a regular old Firehydrant takes atleast 30 Paterns to make(I know,I machine hydrants and Valves)

 

[tonkadoctor]

Well the last years of the 302 were assembled in Cleveland. On weekends I worked on 2 Mold Line which cast the 302, 5.4 and 6.8. This was in 2000, the last 302 was assembled in December 2000.

IIRC it was around '94 or '95 when I drove for a guy that had 3 trucks leased on to "Cimarron Express" The owner and his Dad ran the Cleveland to Winsor route every day and I ran it with his 3rd truck for a while until he leased it on to Gulf Line Transport ....That was a big mistake.

 

[Mr_Roboto]

IIRC it was around '94 or '95 when I drove for a guy that had 3 trucks leased on to "Cimarron Express" The owner and his Dad ran the Cleveland to Winsor route every day and I ran it with his 3rd truck for a while until he leased it on to Gulf Line Transport ....That was a big mistake.

They may have even been 351w blocks.

Ford does not make a great effort to cast and assemble engines at the same locations, the work is all bid out.

Cleveland Casting makes blocks that go to the Detroit / Windsor area to be machined and assembled. And the engine blocks machined and assembled in Cleveland come from different places.

 

[yARIC008]

guys....I don't ge tthe panick here down in the basement
production has stopped on these motors back in 1994. we are entirely supported by the aftermarket for our parts and there's nothing wrong with that fact. After all, the OEM's are using the same suppliers that call themselves "aftermarket" for years. There's no need to panic whatsoever just because IH is not supplying darkside motors. Ford has turned their backs on these trucks back in 1998 when the newer body style was introduced. Enjoy what we have since we have our own network outside of the stealership already

Well i suppose that's true, but have you noticed the difference between OEM and aftermarket parts? I have... If ford loses this diesel, they will likely lose everything which means no more OEM parts at all, not just no diesels...

 

[tonkadoctor]

Well i suppose that's true, but have you noticed the difference between OEM and aftermarket parts? I have.QUOTE]

Yep. Quite a few are better than OEM......Like Moog tie rod ends & ball joints









Of course some ain't worth a rip too

 

[Mont91]

Ford has been ordered to pay IHs price for the 6.4 and IH has been ordered to ship them. The 6.0(still used in the E series) is still in limbo, the hearing is next week.

 

[tonkadoctor]

Ford has been ordered to pay IHs price for the 6.4 and IH has been ordered to ship them. The 6.0(still used in the E series) is still in limbo, the hearing is next week.

Business as usual...Only ones that made out on that deal were the Lawyers

 

[TLBREWER]

I still don't think I would rush right out and buy a new Ford truck with all this crap going on. A person might get a new diesel truck and six months from now the bottom falls out and production stops permanently. Now you've got a truck that was made for less than a year and three years from now you can't get parts for it.

Tom

 

[Diesel JD]

Yeah I worry about Ford being around 3 years from now...and the Ford parts that don't interchange with earlier models may be a problem, but I think that anything you can get from International will be around fro a long time unless they go under too, as I understand that these engines will be in a lot of their medium duty vehicles. I still don't know that I'd want to be a guinea pig with all teh reduced emissions crap...but that's just me!

 

[Mont91]

The engines are still being produced and sold to other customers but I am positive that the engine controls are totally different. I wonder if this ******* match has anything to do with Ford dropping the diesel V6 that
Navistar had spent a small fortune developing for Ford?

 

[MT.EZ]

The local Ford dealer just told me that International was served with a court order. The order is to require international to start shipping engins to Ford.