Nasty oil leak...valley pan or IP gear tower

[Diesel JD]

Well as the title says I have a pretty significant seepage up high on the engine in that area. We're thinking it has something to do with the gear tower or the intake manifold/valley pan. Anyone have any experience with leaks in this area. Valve covers look pretty dry, and I tend to suspect the head gaskets would leak coolant or mix coolant and oil rather than just weep oil to the outside. Any help is appreciated. We arrived at this diagnosis by pressure washing the front of the engine (being careful not to hit the IP or alternator) and after the engine was clean (er) we saw a significant seepage of oil in the area of the IP tower and thermostat housing. Not using or leaking a drop of coolant but my oil consumption has gone from not too bad to moderately severe in a short time.

 

[hesutton]

My WAG is the IP gear cover. The front of the valley pan has a 5 or 6 bolts (I can't remember the exact number) holding it down with a bar over it's front lip and with a good sealing surface area. The rear of the valley pan has no bolts at the mating surface and a very small surface area to form a seal and is a common source of oil leaks. But, that's not related to your issue..... sorry. The nice thing about the IP gear cover is, once you get the IP off, it's really easy to remove/replace......... but you really have to be careful not to ***** the gear timing.

Heath

 

[RLDSL]

If you still need to pinpoint the start of the leak, get some UV dye for oil, it will take two bottles for an engine this size and then run it a bit and then go after the thing with a UV light and glasses like used for AC leak detection ( they are lousy for finding AC leaks, REally need a sniffer for that but great for larger fluid leaks ) It will leave a bright glowing yellow trail leading straight to the source eliminating all guesswork as to where it started to you don't end up having to do any unneeded work

 

[Diesel JD]

I'll ask my friend about the Dye. That was what I was hoping he might suggest. I'm really hoping for the IP gear cover, I really don't want to have to take that turbo off.

 

[flareside_thun]

My gear cover leaks as well, among other things.

 

[Agnem]

Caution: The following idea has not been tested, but in my best estimate SHOULD work ok....

If you have to remove your IP gear housing, do this... Bar the engine over until you can insert the allen wrench in the fuel screw adjustment hole. Loosen all the lines, and then you should be able to unbolt the gear cover housing, using the allen wrench as a sort of retaining mechanism to lock the IP shaft/gear in place. Additionally, longer than correct lenght bolts could be threaded into the IP gear access cover/oil fill and snugged enough to hold the gear tight against the IP shaft. DO NOT OVERTIGHTEN. I'm talking a very small amount of tension here.... Assuming that the rest of the gear train doesn't move while you have the pump off... when you drop it back on, timing should be perfectly preserved.

 

[Diesel JD]

I have another question: 2 more actually. The gear cover and the valley pan really don't have anything to do with each other do they? I mean if I fix the gear cover and still have a leak...I won't have to remove it again if I need to change the valley pan correct? It's been a long time since I have had either off. Also...I seem to recall that the IP installation kits come with some big oring for the pump...is this correct and is it really needed to seal the crankcase? Thanks a lot.

 

[hesutton]

I have another question: 2 more actually. The gear cover and the valley pan really don't have anything to do with each other do they? I mean if I fix the gear cover and still have a leak...I won't have to remove it again if I need to change the valley pan correct? It's been a long time since I have had either off. Also...I seem to recall that the IP installation kits come with some big oring for the pump...is this correct and is it really needed to seal the crankcase? Thanks a lot.

Yes, the valley pan and Ip gear cover are separate. You'll need to silicone the base of the IP gear cover as well to keep it from leaking.

Heath

 

[icanfixall]

Mel has been thinking again... Could this be from all the fresh cali air he was breathing while on vacation last week.... These are the kinds of ideas that make this forum better than the rest... Thanks Mel for showing another way of fixing these engines.... Your a +++ to the forum....

 

[Diesel JD]

Yes, the valley pan and Ip gear cover are separate. You'll need to silicone the base of the IP gear cover as well to keep it from leaking.

Heath

I know man...what sort of silicone should I use...just the red RTV or would something else be better. I'm not too worried about jumping timing, though I really rather it didn't. At least with my meter I'll be able to tell if something isn't right by the numbers rather than guesswork. Gotta fix it though, that amsoil is too expensive to be wasting. I guess nobody knows about the oring I was asking about. Thanks for the help on everything else. I'm not looking forward to this since I know it's going to be tight with that turbo in there. I do know there is JUST enough clearance...getting it back in might be harder.

 

[icanfixall]

If you remove the injection pump gear cover... Thats the aluminum cover that the pump bolts to there is some sealing channels in it that are full of rtv from the factory. Is critical that all that gets cleaned out or you will have another leaker. I use permatex ultra copper rtv and its oil resistent. Never have had a leak yet using it. Its the only rtv I use for our oil pan gaskets too. Just make sure all the oil is cleaned out of the corners and metal joints in this sealing area. Brake clean works very well around these tight areas. Then apply enough rtv to get into those joints and cracks til you see it squeeze out as you install the cover. Do not try to wipe off any that ozzes out. Wait for it to dry and use a razor blade or exacto knife. Much easier that way. No mess smooshing it all over the engine....

 

[ldeikis]

I know I dug this one up out of the grave, but I didn't see a good reason to post a brand new thread and then rehash a bunch of this.

Had the head and valley pan off to retrieve a broken GP tip. I've had a pretty bad oil leak that I suspected was from the IP tower or valley pan, and figured I was 90% of the way there, so I pulled it, too. Amazingly I did NOT screw up the timing. I cleaned the hell out of it until a white paper towel with Brakleen showed no staining, then liberally sealed it with Ultra Black and followed the install instructions to a T. Let it cure for I think two full days, and it leaks like a freaking sieve again. I think the valley pan was leaking before, too, because it's leaking LESS now, but since everything was all cleaned up during the head R&R it's now very obvious that it's leaking from the front of the IP tower. I'm not keen to remove the whole injection pump octopus again, but am vaguely interested in curing this issue. Thoughts? My understanding is it's meant to be metal on metal (with goo) and I think adding any kind of gasket would introduce play in the drive gear/cam interaction that would lead to sadness and misery.

Also, is the oil filler neck meant to seal against the IP tower with any kind of gasket or o-ring? There was nothing there but silicone, so I cleaned it up super well and used ultra black there, too. Can't pinpoint which spot it's leaking from, but it seems like the way the filler neck bolts on there's a cavity that oil would accumulate in and leak out if life isn't perfect.

Thanks.

Luke

 

[icanfixall]

So if I'm reading this correctly.. you pulled a single head to get a broken glow plug tip out... But did not replace the intake valley pan gasket.... Thats where you made the mistake and now you have an oil leak. The valley pan is a one time use gasket. So now it has to be replaced. Before you start taking parts off the engine do some reading as to how this is done. I will breafly tell you whats ahead. Remove the injection pump with all the lines except the feed line on it. There are three 9/16 hex nuts holding it to the gear cover. Then if this is the 6.9 engine with the removeable oil fill spout remove that. Behind it is the three bolts used to hold the pump to the injection pump drive gear. These require a socket that 5/16 hex. They are a 12 point socket too. I can only find this size in 3/8 drive so I got a 3/8x1/2 adapter so I can use my torque wrench to tighten them properly. The torque on those three 5/16 hex bolts is 25 lbs. These are the same bolts that holds the rear universal in the yoke and Nappa sells them in a repair kit. Same bolt and its a high strength bolt. Now the intake must come off too. And BTW the turbo needs to be removed... Good luck there. It can be a tuff job getting the down pipe off the hot side of the turbo. The back of the valley pan has a drain plug that has a 3/8 drive hex in it. That must be in place or you will have a huge oil leak. Please replace the turbo return line grommet in the valley pan. Usually they are well worn and hardened so they leak. I use rtv in the pan and the rubber lip to seal any possibility of leaks. Then when the drain line fits down into that grommet I rtv all around the fit of that. Its a tuff area to reach too but just place a ring of rtv on the end of the oil drain tube and push it into the grommet. As the rtv touches the grommet it seals nicely. I use rtv on every side of the valley pan too just so there is no possiblity of a leak.

 

[SyicoIDI]

My WAG is the IP gear cover. The front of the valley pan has a 5 or 6 bolts (I can't remember the exact number) holding it down with a bar over it's front lip and with a good sealing surface area. The rear of the valley pan has no bolts at the mating surface and a very small surface area to form a seal and is a common source of oil leaks. But, that's not related to your issue..... sorry. The nice thing about the IP gear cover is, once you get the IP off, it's really easy to remove/replace......... but you really have to be careful not to ***** the gear timing.

Heath

I believe there are four bolts holding the front of the valley pan down Heath. I used non hardening permatex on my valley pan. I have not put on my IP yet I need to take the timing cover off.

 

[icanfixall]

I believe there are four bolts holding the front of the valley pan down Heath. I used non hardening permatex on my valley pan. I have not put on my IP yet I need to take the timing cover off.

So with the injection pump not installed on the gear cover its simple to remove the cover. Just 4 bolts and lift it off but make sure the gear does not fall off the cam gear. You can see the injection pump gear thru either side of the gear cover. Just push it back towards the block when you lift off the cover and it will be fine. The cleaning around it may move it but if it never jumps out of the cam gear teeth your ok. You can make a line across itjust in case its jumps a tooth. I really don't think there is any way it can jump a tooth because the area is so close in the front timing cover that the water pump bolts too.