"Moose Pump? Injectors & Intercoolers"

[H71993IDI]

I have a 1993 F-250 7.3 IDI with a Banks Turbo and I'm wanting to install some better injectors and an Intercooler, I want to increase the power a good bit but I dont want to get horrible milage either, so I need some help

I've looked at intercoolers at Hypermax and they are made specifically for their pulse turbo system so I dont know if it will work well with my banks turbo or not?

Second I've looked at injectors on DPS diesel, Ive heard mixed feeling's about these injectors, but I've also heard of Moose injectors and a Moose pump and heard these are good anyone know where to find them at?

If I change my Injectors will I have to change my pump? I just am wondering with the setup I have now what would be the next step and the most bang for my buck In my quest for power

 

[Agnem]

You can adapt a Hypermax intercooler to any brand of turbo with a little inginuity. The original non-wastegated Banks is very similar to the Hypermax and would probably work with no modification. Other types would require some creative piping and intake hat adjustments. Or you can do like I just did and cobble something together with an intercooler off of ebay, and some pipes and elbows from various on-line sources.

As for the Moose Pump and Moose Injectors, the Moose Pump will deliver the fuel at presures needed to drive the Moose Injectors. We've sort of come to the unofficial conclusion that the Moose Injectors may require more than what the DPS pump can deliver. During a recent dyno experiment a DPS pump equipped truck lost 10HP on the dyno when Moose Mister Injectors were swapped in, but gained more boost and ran smoother. I suspect milage may be up also.

 

[H71993IDI]

So how much Gain on Horsepower and torque do you suspect I would gain with the Moose pump and Injector system? Price for the Package? I see you must be the Moose Man so all bias aside would you do an Intercooler or the Pump and Injectors first?

 

[typ4]

All at the same time, you are going to need an intercooler with all the new found boost.
Mel for fuel systems and I can upgrade you turbo when ever you need it.

 

[Agnem]

I always recommend the intercooler when selling a Moose Pump. In my own experience, I was never alble to really use all the fuel that was available as my EGT's would go through the roof. Now that I have one, my EGT's are much better but I can't use the fuel still for fear of blowing out my head gaskets, so studs will be the next big project. That said, lots of guys are running Moose Pumps without the intercooler, and just driving by the pyro.

 

[H71993IDI]

Upgrade my Turbo? My turbo is the wasgated Banks what would I need to Upgrade on it, How would the intercooler help with the Boost issue I understand that with more fuel I will probably increase my EGT's but with the Injector system will I also have to get Head Studs to handle boost issues? and once again what are we Looking at for Power increases? I just can see spending $2000 or $3000 for an insignificant amount of power.

Or could I just go with the Intercooler and then turn up the fuel all the way and be about the same as the moose system because I couldnt use all the fuel without head studs?

 

[icanfixall]

I have the same turbo as you. When I installed my Moose pump the boost never stopped climbing nor did the pyro. Reaching 15 lbs of boost and 1200 degrees on the exhaust was easily possible. As you can see in my motor design studs are required. I finally needed to turn down the pump. I'm not running an intercooler.... Yet... I turned down my pump one full turn plus two flats.... Thats a lot... Most turn up their pumps. I really need to install the Hypermax intercooler. These turbos heat up the intake air charge well past 300 degrees with any boost over around 12 lbs... So you see any more boost is wasted because your sending very hot air into a motor that your trying to run cool. That wont give you anymore hp either. When you try to reach 15 lbs of boost its just an ego race and does nothing for the end result of hp. ARP is making the best studs for the 6.9 or 7.3 motor. I helped design the DPS studs with Ken. They were 270,000 psi and worked great.... Till I burned down my motor at 5200 miles. The crapy shop that did my machine work on the block didn't use the correct freeze plugs and installed them without the special tool. Two popped out.. Instant burn down.... Those DPS studs didn't last in the next motor but 1200 miles. Two broke and coolant started leaking out. I showed them to the engineers at ARP and they had no idea why the broke. So I'm running the ARP studs at 220,000 psi and very happy with them. They wont break and you can reuse them over and over. What hp are you looking for? About the most you will get is 300 horse at the crank and even thats doing plenty of work. Adding water-**** injection or propane will be an easy addition for hp too. Most will run window washer fluid for the water-**** injection. It works fine. Others will run distilled water only.

 

[H71993IDI]

Yeah I've thought about the Methyl Injection DPS makes a Kit for about $700 but a guy on another web forum warned me of the danger of too much water entering the cylinder and the possibility of turning my moter into scrap metal.

It sounds kinda like your moose pump was a waste of money because you had to turn it down so much If given the chance would you do it again or just leave it alone?

 

[snicklas]

H71993IDI,

I believe that Gary (icanfixall) just bought his second moose pump. He installed it at the IDI Rally in Bowling Green, Ky and drove it home to Southern California. So I think the answer to your question would be yes, and this also shows his confidince in the Moose Punp Build, that he was willing to change it 2200 miles away from home, and then drive back.

 

[H71993IDI]

So explain to me what his benefit would be from the pump if he has to retard it so badly I guess that's the part I'm not understanding

 

[snicklas]

I believe Gary has chosen to turn the pump down to so at to help with the EGT's and not have to "drive by the pyro" The Moose Pump delivers more fuel the stock, (A Baby Moose Pump is a stock pump, more like what you would be wanting). Gary also lives in California, and they are phobic about diesels (do a search and see what some of the law changes are, towcat has several posts about it). He wanted a quality pump, that he could get the most out of, which he has, but the Moose Pump has the ability to give more, and without an intercooler to help control the EGT's you can melt something. Mel has just put an intercooler on the Moose Truck to help with this, and Gary has one to install. Once he has the intercooler on the truck, he will turn the pump back up to an optimim level for his use. On think to keep in mind is the IDI was designed to be Naturally Aspirated, which is one reason it has such a high compression ratio, So you add a turbo, which stuffs more air into the cylinder, this raises the pressures in there... this is whny you have to be careful with the amount of boost.

For Example:
The IDI has a 21.5:1 compression ratio and was designed to be Naturally Aspirated. Add a turbo and 10-12 PSI of boost is about the maxium safe level.
The 6.0L has a 16:1 (I believe) compression ratio and was designed to be turbochaged. Mine has an intercooler from the factory and can run upto 30 PSI of boost stock.

I think the benefit is the pump will do everything that he wants, and it a Superior Quality Build. In this case the $$$ for the quality is a huge factor, along with the increased performance.

 

[towcat]

So explain to me what his benefit would be from the pump if he has to retard it so badly I guess that's the part I'm not understanding

he didn't retard the pump
he reduced the volume of fuel to the injectors.
I don't have a moose pump on my truck yet, but my experience before and after IC is very simple.
before IC, I would start to run out of power at 3k rpm
after IC, I would be hitting the governor still pulling hard at 3800 rpm.

 

[H71993IDI]

So if you were me (snicklas) you would go with the intercooler system first right and then along the road you would add the Moose pum and injectors maybe right?

Cause I would still see the benefit of the Intercooler with my system the way it is now cause I could turn up the stock IP without worrying about the EGT's as much and colder air also mean more power right?

 

[snicklas]

That is up to you.. you could go that route, and yes you would see some more power with your current setup. Then see a big improvement with a Moose Pump and injectors later.

 

[H71993IDI]

Thanks Guys for the Help! And one more simple question should I buy the $1500 Hypermax Intercooler system or try to fashion something using a factory intercooler off something else?

How technical would that get and how much money saving would I be looking at?