just wondering

[93blklightning]

I'm not going to go into detail on what I do for a living. I've done a lot of different things over the years, but I really enjoy what I'm pursuing as a career now. To make a long story short, I don't turn wrenches for a living anymore, only for myself and family or friends. I do however come in contact with many, many different types of vehicles, and people everyday. I see a little of everything, and I mean everything. Getting to the point, I know new, and newer vehicles are nice, even if almost all the '13 and up body styles are ugly (imho). With all the new computer controlled, and complex conveniences that are available in the newer vehicles, along with a warranty. Make it so easy to own with nothing to worry about. That is until the warranty is gone. Just think, ten years from now, when the warranty is long gone, the parts are still extremely expensive, and the factory (who ever it may be (Ford,GM,Chrystler,etc.), won't release the codes or license after market parts. What will you do? Buy another? My question is. as ridiculous as it may seem, would it be worth it, or would there be a market for a new type of vehicle, one that does have some computer controlled systems, but made for the customer. Of course you can have it serviced at the dealer, but it could also be easily maintained by the owner after the warranty is gone. Maybe this is just wishful thinking, but wouldn't it be nice if something "new and improved" really is, and not just a dealer only item, and disposable after the new one comes out.

 

[C.J.]

We had 2 different Dodge Cummins go down this week at work. One was a '99 and the other was an '07. Both were due to sensors and such. My IDI won't win any races but even I (Someone who pays someone else to work on their truck) can figure things out thanks to websites like this.

The tranny was surging on the 99 and the mechanic said it was due to dirty battery cables. ***!!!

 

[93blklightning]

We had 2 different Dodge Cummins go down this week at work. One was a '99 and the other was an '07. Both were due to sensors and such. My IDI won't win any races but even I (Someone who pays someone else to work on their truck) can figure things out thanks to websites like this.

The tranny was surging on the 99 and the mechanic said it was due to dirty battery cables. ***!!![/QUOTE

No joke, just imagine how bad it would be if it was a '14 model, with no warranty. If it wasn't for web sites like this, it would be ALOT more difficult

 

[mohavewolfpup]

I've always wondered the same thing about much of these newer vehicles.

Some dodge transmissions you need to get "firmware flashed" to solve shift problems. This isn't replacing the mechanical guts, it's a software screw up. In 30,40,50+ years (think objectively) you dig one out of the junkyard, a barn or whatever and find it shifts like hell, but the company is dead (think desoto,packard) or gives a blank stare when you take it in for the repair "uhh, we tossed all that out decades ago, sorry!" Then what do you do?

Toyota tacomas (07+ as far as I know only) have plastic beds. Not metal, but plastic. You put the wrong load in it, or the sun does a number to it and cracks it, where exactly do you source something that gigantic in the after market? To make it worse, it's one piece cast is my understanding. Not like a typical bed where it's modular for the most part then welded together. Good luck finding this in a junkyard, the aftermarket or even toyota possibly

CVT Transmissions. Stubborn one trick ponys are some of them. Very complicated. especially if using onboard software interfacing to the electrical/electronic system. How do you repair it exactly? A 1950 dodge coronet with a gyromatic transmission (half automatic half manual) is probably easier to get parts for (get them machined, just $$$) then that...

Toyota hybrid technology, even made it's way into ford products due to their monopolies/patents on the technology. Where do you source the batteries, etc down the road for it if the technology is considered inferior/old/outdated (who needs batteries, we've got small atomic reactors that never need fuel replacement ever again!)

I shake my head honestly at a lot of modern vehicles nowadays. Sadly, forced upgrades (DOT, smog quality) force you to buy this newer junk. They do not look or feel modular anymore. Want to swap a transmission in a 2013-2014 truck (any model?) bet you have to spend hours and tens of thousands swapping the guts, computers, sensors, etc. Maybe even cut up the frame to shoe horn it in...

Compare it against any of our old trucks, and you may need to modify/weld/hack cut the frame some, or maybe not. A 59 chevrolet apache for example has a plate bolted down where the tranny is. Pop it out, swap a new one, or unbolt it, weld over the plate to keep dust out, drop the hydramatic in (or stick the controls for it through the old manual transmission hole) and viola. All ready to go.

Many vehicles today only come with automatic. and look at the fancy console in the middle with all the gizmos, cup holders and electronic doo-dads for the transmission/shifter. Good luck swapping it there, especially if it may have had a rare manual option!

I thought a 4.0 V6 in a 1993 ford explorer would be so over complicated with it's electronics. Hah. Remove the upper half of the engine and take it down to the intake manifold. Could swap it out and put a carb on it! Try that today with a 2013 explorer...

 

[ToughOldFord]

Planned obsolescence, the winners are the auto-makers, auto-sellers, and state governments.

And we lose.

 

[79jasper]

I see where you guys are coming from.
But you only hear the horror stories from people that have problems. You get a good one that doesn't have hiccups and you have no reason to be on forums really. You can't count the good ones, just the bad.

Automatic transmissions have come a long way. There's truly no need for a manual anymore.


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[bbjordan]

Automatic transmissions have come a long way. There's truly no need for a manual anymore.

I've never had much luck push starting or drag starting an automatic.

 

[79jasper]

Yeah yeah yeah.
Don't need seatbelts since we have airbags now also right?


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[racin460]

here is a good one for you, I here all the time that the newer stuff is built to run longer now a days. today a local BIG construction company got rid of 26 vehicle's. in the mess of them a good bit of 05-08 f150 250 350 all around 200,000 miles. some with bad trans, some bad motors, some rear. company said "there just not worth fixing". low and behold there was a 90 ccdrw f350 460 zf5 340,000 miles on it and a 94 ccdrw 460 zf5 420,000 run, drive, just beet up. company said they got rid of them "because there just to old"

 

[opusd2]

Newer isn't always better. My 86 doesn't ride as nice as my brother's 03 but at least the engine isn't finicky with regards to starting in cold, or if some small electronic parameter isn't met. I know back in 94 when I bought my 89 GMC I was initially intimidated by the computer on the truck as well as the fuel injection system. Well, some studying and the purchase of an almost outdated OTC scanner/logger unit and I had things figured out. Even tried my hand at burning an EPROM, which worked well. I managed more power and mileage just by changing injector pulse width and timing for the most part. But that was just early OBD. Today's systems are a while new ballgame, utilizing a lot of digital processing and processors and sensors built by the lowest bidder. The unfortunate part is that (like ToughOldFord mentioned) planned obsolescence helps dealers sell new vehicles instead of parts after a certain time frame.

Our old iron allows us to utilize our ingenuity and repair skills using parts meant for not only other models or makes of trucks, but other categories of vehicles or construction and farm equipment. We can truly make our vehicles part of who we are by how we choose to keep things running or improve on their service. And it's even possible to find usable parts in the boneyards yet. And we have each other on boards like this who are willing to not only offer advice on our dilemmas but also sometimes lend a helping hand or even parts. With us it's not so much a competition but a brother-ship, something that can't be explained to a generation of vehicles and owners where plug and play is the way to distinguish each other from their peers. Down the road they will be scrambling to find a special processor or digital sensor to light the fires in the computer driven vehicle where we will just be able to grab some components off of a dead tractor, combine, skidder, school bus, WHATEVER and with a little massaging will have our beasts running again.

I highly doubt that any car like a Saturn or Kia will hold a special place for us like a GTO or Road Runner. Sure there are exceptions to every rule, and I honestly hope some exceptions roll off the showroom floor instead of the EPA specials which keep us from owning inexpensive vehicles that run efficiently and dependably.

 

[ToughOldFord]

Yeah, they have, in the wrong direction. Autos used to be dependable, lasted a long time, and were cheap to rebuild. Now if you have a bad connection at a solenoid pack, a buggy sensor, or more than 100K on it it cannot be relied upon other than to cost you $2500 to "repair" it.

I see where you guys are coming from.
But you only hear the horror stories from people that have problems. You get a good one that doesn't have hiccups and you have no reason to be on forums really. You can't count the good ones, just the bad.

Automatic transmissions have come a long way. There's truly no need for a manual anymore.


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[Agnem]

You have no idea. Denso's latest family of common rail injectors have a computer IN THE INJECTOR. I kid you not! It would be very easy to program them to crap out after so many injection events, just so you are forced to replace them for emissions reasons. We are rapidly approaching the era of the disposable vehicle. Many many changes are coming down the road as computers become more and more of what a vehicle is. Drive by wire, shift by wire, brake by wire, steer by wire... it's all aimed at taking YOU out from behind the steering wheel. Mark my words... in a couple of decades, really weird stuff will be happening! But in the meantime, I see the problem already. I had one customer spend $7000 with me this winter on a 10 year old powerstroke that was worth... what? $8K? $10K at most? In the future, the cost of repairs will almost surely always be more than the vehicle is worth.

 

[icanfixall]

I really agree with many of the statements posted here. Mel is in the know about diesels. To stay in that game is like any other games. Study up before it happens. then you know what it takes to do the job. Our engines are simple mechaniclyy controlled but they still cause some a hard time with air intrusion issues. One member kept having air issues and finally FOUND an electric lift pump installed hidden on the frame rail. It was not working. Suddenly this issue is fixed with very little effort but what ahs happened to this rig to require an additional lift pump with the oem mechanical lift pump. Maybe some of us here would have found this dead pump right away. But its done now and running great from the owners posting. Would I have thought there was a dead pump stuck in the suction system.. Nope but. With the air in the system I sure would have been under the truck looking for a damaged fuel suction line. A computer made into an electronic fuel injector is impressive as hell. But Mel has a point. Design in a date when they fail so the air is better to breathe is not out of the possibilities either. In Japan at 50,000 miles you are REQUIRED to replace your gas engines.. Not rebuild but replace with new or junk the car. This is good for us in the US.. We get plenty of good used low mileage engines to replace what we run till they die. These battery powered cars are my pet peeve. anybody know where to take the bad used up lithion ion battery when your done with it. I'm betting dollars to donuts you can't find a place.. Nobody will recycle them. Nobody will take them. Not even the car maker or the battery makers. So now you have an 1800 lbs block you can't even move easily. Try to dumpo that behind an auto parts store or a super market dumpster...New cars and trucks look nice as they should but I'm not buying because they look new. I enjoy easy reliable transportation I can work on.

 

[riotwarrior]

The simple fact of the matter is...

Those whom afford new afford the comfort and luxery of the the warranty and not the OH ***** I've gotta fix this myself.

Those whom cannot afford the "new" do however afford the luxery of being able to either do their own work like many here do or have it done by someone who can...ma/pa shops, friends, family etc

As these devices we currently drive, get more and more complex and less user friendly we get over run by their capabilities and distracted by the **** bang feature sets. This and all the safety features are gearing us to a self driven, no user control type of vehicle. Mark my words it's all about control and not ours!

By removing control from the user, insurance companies and such stand to make much more money by not having to pay out large claims, this and much more is what I see as the future.

Those of us with our archaic vehicles will inevitably be the cronies whom pay higher fees for insurance for the privaledge of self control .

Again all this is just hypothetical on my part...but it's what I see potentially being real.

Ya a more simple user friendly vehicle would be nice however I'm thinking that the way the Gooberments are, they likely won't allow that type of new entry into the field of play


JM2CW

Al

 

[opusd2]

We may just be the ones who end up paying more for the freedom of driving what we want and being in control of our buggies. But the freedom is worth it. I refuse to be pushed to replace something just because it's deemed "old and unsafe" just because there isn't enough electronics for Big Brother to follow us or shut us down, or kill parts of the vehicle that aren't offered as replacement parts either factory or aftermarket. Then we would have to replace our chosen rides with something we didn't want. There is a law around here that is being enforced that any vehicle on your place needs to be licensed with insurance and it has to be able to run if it is checked. Nothing like taking away a person's spare parts all in the name of "cleaning up" the landscape, but then you realize that there are more billboards and signs around touting the seasonal tourist industry. The powers that be are also targeting farmers for a few reasons, but I won't get into that.

I plan on doing my thing, living how I want even if it means straying from Ford parts (which I actually do since I WILL use the best available parts). And since the neighbor has a fully equipped shop complete with mill and lathe and traveling overhead hoist, I'm settling in to the comfort of my seasoned vehicles. The only electronics I plan on using are my CB's and new radios transplanted into my prehistoric behemoths.