Hot start problems

[IHdieselfan]

I have a friends 92 f350 that I have been working on. H e brought it to me to do a lot of stuff to it brakes, cooling system mainly, but complained a little about not starting hot. Truck has 139, 000 mi. On it and pretty well maintained. I had the injection pump rebuilt at 80, 000. That time it had the same hot start problems. I removed the pump again and carried it back to the same pump shop had them test it said it had high return again. So they built it again. Put it back on still hot start problem. To define, when warm if you shut it down and in 30 sec crank it up again it fires ok, but if you let it sit for 15 to 20 min and try to crank it, it spins a lot before it runs. And it doesn't mattet if you give it some throttle or not and doesn't matter if you use the glow plugs. Now I've talked back with pump shop they said bring the injectors and they would pop test them. Did that and I watched they popped off at 2000 but not the best pattern and leaked a stream off just below that pressure. He sold me a new set of injectors. Installed them with the exact same results. Now with all that said understand that I have been doing business with this place for a long time. Me and my dad graded the building pad were the currently are located. But have found that they are not as good as they think they are sometimes. And have found that on somethings i know more than they do. Now anybody seen this before or know what to check next. Also starts cold perfect. But on another note I don't think he's been putting lubricant in the fuel either.

 

[icanfixall]

Really sounds like the heat soak issue. This is when the pump is worn out. Internally there is 2 rollers that compress diesel against a ring collar. The tolerance here is less than 1 thousands. when it wears out the engine will start ok cold. But when the engine is warmed up and shut down like in your case. It heat soaks these worn areas so much the pump can't make the pressure needed to pop open the injectors. Best way to test for this is allow it to happen again. Then pour some water thats NOT ICE COLD on the back side of the injection pump. Do this just before the injector lines. Maybe a quart. Then try to start the engine. If it fires up you have proven the worn out pump. Please tell us who rebuilt the pump twice too. This form can recommend a good rebuilder for you. The ebay sellers are mostly scammers. Read the Hall of Shame forum to see who they are.

 

[79jasper]

^ What he said.
They can't exactly test for heat soak.

Sent from my SM-G900R4 using Tapatalk

 

[IHdieselfan]

that was I forgot to say I was alreay going to try that in the morning. I've done that several times before to check on various pumps. But is there anything else it could be. In the back of mind I'm thinking the problems is the pump. As I said before I lost my faith in this place over the last few years but this would be the first bad pump from them.

 

[FarmerFrank]

Sounds to me like they didn't replace the head in the pump, unfortunately. Another thing that can Band-aid heat soak is turn the fuel up a flat so when its hot and trying to start it has more fuel available to push through. Tried it on 2 of mile and got a couple more miles out of the pump.

Remember these need more fuel at startup than any other time. At least that what I was told by my pump guy.

 

[icanfixall]

Thickening up the diesel with some engine oil be it new or ued or some ATF. 2 quarts might be a starting place. We can run 100% waste engine oil and not have many issues but starting and stopping on regualar diesel is the best easy to restart idea. Lots of fuel ideas in the alternate fuel forum here.

 

[IHdieselfan]

So today I tried the water down trick. It started fine. Called another pump shop about an hour and a half away. They said that the problem was the head and rotor. They ask how much the previous shop charged to build the pump. I said $450 both times 80, 000 and now 137, 000. He said that wasn't enough. He said the head and rotor was at least $500. So basicly I have an original head and rotor that has been running ulsd for along time. So I call the original shop, I ask them they said that they had not replaced the head and rotor either time. They said the head and rotor was $900. They asked me to bring the the truck up there. I did and they saw it do it. They said leave it there so we will see what they do.

 

[79jasper]

You could've got a real good pump from Conestoga for that......
One that would actually last longer than those previous "rebuilds."

Sent from my SM-G900R4 using Tapatalk

 

[FarmerFrank]

Just like I thought. So what did they actually replace in the pump??

 

[icanfixall]

Your really wasting you money and time with that shop. They had 2 chances to make it right. What do you think your going to get charged this time. So right now you have a pump thats been rebuilt 2 times at a cost of $500.00 each. Thats $1000.00 spent and you still don't have a "good pump" like is sold by Mel at Conestoga Diesel Injection of Pa. In all kindness please get your truck hack and call Mel. You will not be disappointed in their quality. This has been proven many times over on this forum. He sells world wide too so you know that means a quality part.
I'm not trying to be ******* you especially if you never knew of Mel. You surely would be time and money ahead at this point had you done business with Mel. Very sorry for your troubles and if you can please post the name of this rebuild shop we may help others to deal elswhere. Save them the same troubles you have.

 

[IHdieselfan]

At this point he's not going to pay them anything else. If they put a head and rotor in it for no charge just to make it right then fine but he's not going to pay them to do nothing else. I have seen the moose pumps on here but figured they were high performance and pricey.

 

[mjs2011]

Conestoga sells several different "tiers" of pumps from bone stock up to high performance. The prices are listed on his website and the moose junior is not much more than what he paid for the rebuilds he got.

 

[icanfixall]

At this point he's not going to pay them anything else. If they put a head and rotor in it for no charge just to make it right then fine but he's not going to pay them to do nothing else. I have seen the moose pumps on here but figured they were high performance and pricey.

Mel sells from mild to wild pumps. The prices reflect the mild to wild too. I have now run 2 of the original Moose pumps and love them dearly. They are rebuilt using ONLY factory Stanadyne parts. Quality and time costs money. These pumps have been on idi engines for years and so far not one person has complained. I feel a person that complains about what Mel sells is just looking for a fight.

 

[dunk]

Mine does the same thing but has only given me a hard hot start a handful of times in a few months. Gonna save my pennies and ride it out for a bit until it's more consistently hard to start them bite the bullet and get a new pump and injectors from Conestoga Diesel since Mel is highly recommended here. Too many horror stories of wasted time and money with other shops. The one time it didn't want to start after a bit of cranking I poured a bottle of water over the pump and it fired off the moment I touched the key, so definitely the pump loosening up with hot thin fuel.

 

[79jasper]

List of great pumps, with pricing.
http://www.conestogadiesel.com/products/ford.html

Sent from my SM-G900R4 using Tapatalk