Gummy Oil

[PwrSmoke]

Yeah, I agree. That filter efficiency improves with use is a fact that isn't trumped by misinterpreted observations (no insult intended Devon ( : < ). Most likely, Devon, by changing the filter early... and those filters hold two quarts.... you are putting in 2 plus quarts of fresh, clean oil which will dilute the normally black color of diesel oil. You are doing a 20 percent oil change essentially. Take a cup of iced tea brewed dark and strong like I love it. Increase the volume of it with 20 percent water and see how much clearer the tea gets.

The color of oil, especially in a diesel... most especially an old school diesel like an IDI... is of minimal importance. The black is soot and an older, more tired engine will generate more of it. Thing is, it's mostly sub-micronic... meaning it's smaller than a micron in size. Now it can agglomerate (clump together) and make bigger particles when the dispersant and detergent additives in the oil wear out, but when dispersed it's relatively harmless to the engine and flows through all the but the finest filtration systems. If fact, I've been told that when you have a diesel engine in which the oil stays too clean looking too long, it's either not running or it has one heck of a bypass filtration system in it.

 

[Dave 001]

WIX oil analysis kit p/n 24077. Also available at NAPA. Inexpensive and will tell you eveything you need to know. For use with engine oil, transmission fluid, hydraulic fluid, etc.

Dave

 

[Kevin 007]

Also the oil was 2 years old with 8,200 miles on the oil tag was in the window. No my other truck and all my trucks I go 5,000 miles and change filter at 2,500 miles and its usually never pitch black. I use Rotella soon to switch and MotorCraft FL1995 Powerstoke filters. When I do it this way its still thick and not a nasty smelly black liquid grease if you know what I mean its still BROWN in the light and smells fresh. Could I use it as oil to do a couple 500 mile changes and use the auto RX?

8,200miles is certainly not the most that folks have run on an oil change. Some go WAAAYYYY longer. Of course it aint good but you may be stressing a little much over yours. Just change it frequently for a bit, whether you decide to use Auto-RX or not; and be happy and enjoy the truck.
I just bought a B series Toyota diesel engine for some external parts for mine fleet of Landcruisers, the guy I bought it from had it for 12 years and probably 125,000miles and changed the oil twice!!!!!!!! Now thats bad!! So please don't get too worked up about yours.

 

[IH POWER]

drain your oil and put some diesel fuel in your crankcase and run it for a few seconds. that'll clean it out ;P

 

[bayou]

i can bet i will get flamed for this.
about 10-20 miles befor i change my oil i add a quart of ATF to the engine. seems to clean the sludge out good

 

[tanman_2006]

If fact, I've been told that when you have a diesel engine in which the oil stays too clean looking too long, it's either not running or it has one heck of a bypass filtration system in it.

Or gapless rings...

 

[flareside_thun]

i can bet i will get flamed for this.
about 10-20 miles befor i change my oil i add a quart of ATF to the engine. seems to clean the sludge out good

Nah, I've done that on every vehicle I've ever owned.

 

[Devon Harley]

Really? How's that work?

 

[justinray]

I went 20,000 miles between an pil change when I first got my truck, did an oil change, then another 1500 later, then normal since, been good for 40,000 miles.

 

[Dave 001]

Really? How's that work?

ATF is very high in detergents.

Dave

 

[bigoilburner20]

So I can run an atf in my oil and it will clean it up?

 

[PwrSmoke]

Or gapless rings...

I used gapless rings on a 6.2L GM build. It slowed it up for sure. I didn't have it long enough after the overhaul to put a lot of miles on it and see how it continued years down the road.

RE ATF: Its actually the opposite. ATF has next to NO detergent chemistry at all. It does have dispersants, which is sorta-kinda the same thing, but motor oil has much more of all of that. ATF lives in a closed environment. There's nothing in an AT that generates soot, acids, carbon and it doesn't "breathe" in outside air like an engine. Detergents aren't necessary. So as to ATF having any better cleaning ability than motor oil... sorry... it's a myth and a waste.

 

[lbzbuick]

RE ATF: Its actually the opposite. ATF has next to NO detergent chemistry at all. It does have dispersants, which is sorta-kinda the same thing, but motor oil has much more of all of that. ATF lives in a closed environment. There's nothing in an AT that generates soot, acids, carbon and it doesn't "breathe" in outside air like an engine. Detergents aren't necessary. So as to ATF having any better cleaning ability than motor oil... sorry... it's a myth and a waste.

What about when you spill atf on the floor it cleans the floor where you spill it really well but when you spill clean oil it doesnt clean it so much? JW

 

[tanman_2006]

I used gapless rings on a 6.2L GM build. It slowed it up for sure. I didn't have it long enough after the overhaul to put a lot of miles on it and see how it continued years down the road.

There is a guy on another site that put gapless rings (perfect circle iirc) on a military 6.2 take out and only did a hone and rering. Says after 5k mile OCI on his hotshot rig the oil is only Gasser dark golden color. He has over 30K on his rig and its still running clean. He also runs B99 normally

 

[PwrSmoke]

What about when you spill atf on the floor it cleans the floor where you spill it really well but when you spill clean oil it doesnt clean it so much? JW

Never noticed a difference myself. There could be any number of explanations.... but it really doesn't matter. ATF has much less detergent in it than motor oil. Certain synthetic oils that contain a lot of esters may have some solvent capability, i.e. the ability to dissolve gum and varnish, so perhaps you could see a difference there.

Calcium and magnesium are the two main detergents used in oil, calcium being the stronger of the two, in all types of oil. Boron is a multi-function additive that's both an anti-wear and detergent additive.

Averaging the calcium, magnesium and boron of several Dex III ATFs, I get:

Dex III

Calcium- 0.05%
Magnesium- 0.05%
Boron- 0.15%


Delo 400 LE Motor Oil

Calcium- 0.18%
Magnesium- 0.05%
Boron- 0.5%

Rotella 5W40

Calcium- 0.13%
Magnesium- 0.08%
Boron- 0.08

Delvac 1300

Calcium- 0.13%
Magnesium- 0.08%
Boron- 0.06


Here's quote from a respected Tribologist I know:

The main requirements of an ATF are thermal stability and friction modification (lubrication), with some anti-wear additive for the sun, lock-up, and planetary gears, and of course, the needle/pin bearings. Add about 0.05% of anti-foamants (siloxanes) and some red dye for leak identification, and you have a special Hydraulic Oil called, 'ATF.' The formulator will tweak the additive package for each base oil type (group) or mixes of base oils.The calcium and magnesium need not be as strong in ATF as in IC engines, because these dispersant/detergents don't have to work so hard removing (cleaning) the carbonaceous deposits and sludge created by blowby. The borates (as in boron) are multifunctional additive's that work as Anti-Wear additives, as detergents, as anticorrosives, and as anti-oxidants. The fluid not only acts as the lubricant, but also acts as the power (torque) transfer agent. In doing the latter, it gets hot and tends to oxidize the oil. The main requirement for calcium, magnesium, and to a lesser extent, boron, is to keep the internals clean of any oxidized particles so they can operate the hydraulic actuators and valves.


Forgot to add. Say you add a quart of ATF you your oil, runit a while and it seems to have done a job of cleaning. OK. Well, what you did is add fresh oil that has a fresh additive pack (albeit less detergents than motor oil, it still has some and they are ******) to used oil in which the additive package is weak and nearly used up. The fresh additives do some cleaning. Stands to reason. A quart of fresh motor oil will do the same thing and probably do it better without diluting the oil and putting in anti-wear additives not designed for engines. One good thing about ATF in engines is that ATF has a lot of seal swelling agents in it, so it might soften the seals up a little if given enough time. But in a diesel, why would you want to dilute the oil with 10 or 20 grade oil when the oil has probably already sheared down. To me, the disadvantages in putting ATF in an engine far outweigh any advantages.