Frame strength & trailer weight

[jaluhn83]

Anyone have any specs on what the frames on these trucks are rated for? I seem to recall hearing at one point that the F250 frame is the same as the F350 SRW, can anyone confirm?

The reason I ask is because I've been using my old flatbed trailer a fair amount recently and I started wondering about the frame strength. The trailer is an old Zieman 18' equipment trailer rated for ~13k. With the backhoe on it the trailer is pretty much right at 13k and with it loaded the way I like I've got 1500-2k lb of tongue weight. I now have a receiver rated for 16k GTW/2400 TW and my hitch is rated similarly. I'm under the truck rated GVW & rated rear axle/tire load, so the only thing I'm not sure of is if the frame itself is rated for that kind of load. I'm not over the design truck GVW, however the load from having that much weight hanging off a hitch is far different than having it in the bed.

Thanks,
~John

 

[Ruger_556]

Frame is the same but I'd be looking into a goose neck at 13,000 lbs... That's a lot of tongue weight. Also some legality issues as an F-250 is rated for a 9-10,000 lb trailer.

An F-350 is a 250 with 4" blocks in the rear and a solid front axle.

 

[riotwarrior]

An F-350 is a 250 with 4" blocks in the rear and a solid front axle.

And some different shocks, maybe u joints, and springs there are differences in springs...as well.

 

[Knuckledragger]

I don't know about frame ratings, but I had 13,000 lbs in the bed (for about 5 miles) going to a scrap yard with no ill effects. The axles are more likely to fail before the frame.

 

[OLDBULL8]

What's your rear tires rated at?

 

[Ruger_556]

And some different shocks, maybe u joints, and springs there are differences in springs...as well.

Well if you want to get technical... Front leaf springs, D60 and related components, 4" rear blocks, and longer shocks. You could get the same rear leafs with or without overloads in either truck I think.

 

[2stroke]

Also it is overlooked here that a pulling a trailer GVWR over 10,000 requires a CDL

 

[jaluhn83]

As a general comment, pulling that heavy is a very rare, very carefully done evolution. It's not something I'm doing every day. More common is 8-10k GTW (~16k GCW), but I think it's worth discussing.

Ruger, I agree that a gn trailer would be better. On the other hand, this is trailer I have and it works. The legality issue is there, true, though a gn trailer at that weight would have the same legality issue. I agree that it's a lot of tounge weight.... that being said, the trailer, hitch, ball, receiver, truck GVW, truck axle weights, & tires are all in spec, so aside from the legality issue frame strength is the only thing I can think of that's really an unknown.

Surprisingly the rig handles quite well at that weight. Stopping without trailer brakes is not great (I tested it going down a ~4% grade starting about 45 mph and it did ok) but there's no tendency to get squirley or light on the front end.

Oldbull, rear tires are 33-12.50r16.5 rated at 2910# ea, truck rear axle rating is 5878# (from GVW plate, actual axle rating is 6250 or 6300#) First trip with the backhoe I was 5520# on the rear axle, second was 4220. (Front/Rear/Trailer/Total: 1st - 3100/5520/12640/21260 2nd - 3220/4220/12500/19940)

2stroke, good point. Hadn't thought about that part - knew about the 26k GCW limit but didn't think about trailer GVW. I'd be willing to bet that it's pretty frequently violated though given the number of big trailers you see running around.

 

[Black dawg]

maybe I misread your post, but are you towing that weight with no trailer brakes?

 

[oregon96psd]

Also it is overlooked here that a pulling a trailer GVWR over 10,000 requires a CDL

Is that a Pennsylvania thing? Or are there other states like that too?

 

[Ruger_556]

Is that a Pennsylvania thing? Or are there other states like that too?

Relatively sure that's a Federal Law...

 

[oregon96psd]

The state I live in has this to say....

Who Must Obtain a CDL

Idaho's Commercial Driver's License (CDL) Program is designed to improve safety on our highways while meeting federal requirements for testing and licensing of all commercial drivers. You must have a CDL to operate any of the following commercial motor vehicles (CMV):



1. Combination vehicle with a gross combination weight rating (GCWR) of 26,001 or more pounds, provided that the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of the towed unit is greater than 10,000 pounds
2. Single vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of 26,001 or more pounds
3. Vehicle designed to transport 16 or more persons (including the driver)
Any size vehicle that requires hazardous material placards


Gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) is the manufacturer's assigned weight rating for the vehicle (truck, bus, or trailer), not the vehicle registered weight. On trucks, the GVWR is usually found on a plate or sticker inside the driver's door. On trailers, it may be found anywhere but is commonly found on the front of the trailer on the trailer tongue or frame. For Idaho, in the absence of a GVWR, the actual weight of the vehicle plus its heaviest load is considered to be the GVWR. The sum of the GVWR of the tires can also be used to determine approximate GVWR. Other states may use other definitions.

Gross combined weight rating (GCWR), is figured by adding the GVWR of each unit of a combination vehicle.



If I understand number one it means that the gvw of the tow vehicle plus the gvw of the trailer has to be higher than 26,001 lbs to need a cdl. Not gonna get there with an f-250 and a 13k gvw trailer. I get to deal with this all the time at work, my service truck is a f-550 with a gvw of 19k lbs. so I have to be careful what I pull, but its a lot easier with a pickup. Trailer weight alone isnt the deciding factor, its the combination of the two.

 

[jaluhn83]

maybe I misread your post, but are you towing that weight with no trailer brakes?

No. I may be dumb on occasion, but not that bad!! I see what you mean though, wasn't clear in my post.

What I meant was that I did a test turning the trailer brakes off to see how the truck would hold it and if the trailer would try to push me around. I replaced the trailer brakes not long ago and that's one of those things that **have** to be working right for me.

CA says the same.

It's very interesting to me that it's 10k GVWR - not actual trailer weight. Pretty sure most anything bigger than the typical 7k car trailer is going to technically require a cdl then. I know my horse trailer is 12k GVWR even though it never goes about about 7k, and it's a not a very large trailer - plenty of bigger ones out there.

 

[oregon96psd]

^^^

I still dont think your quite getting it (this is for Idaho, not sure about other states thats why I asked) but the 10k gvw trailer doesnt automatically need a cdl. Take your 12k gvw horse trailer, if you pulled it with your f-250 you wouldnt need a cdl.... 8500? gvw for the pickup plus 12k for trailer=20.5k.....under the 26,001 cut, on the opposite side 19k gvw f-550 plus a 10k gvw trailer=29k......ticket Thats how Idaho is, I was just curious how other states do it.

 

[jaluhn83]

CA it's GVWR...

Class 'C' / 'B' may tow:
A single vehicle with a GVWR of 10,000 lbs. or less including a tow dolly, if used.
If the towing vehicle weighs 4,000 lbs. or more unladen, you may tow a:
Trailer coach not exceeding 9,000 lbs. gross.
Trailer coach or 5th-wheel travel trailer under 10,000 lbs. GVWR when towing is not for compensation.
5th-wheel travel trailer exceeding 10,000 lbs. but not exceeding 15,000 lbs. GVWR, when towing is not for compensation.

From what I read in your post Idaho is the same