??? FRAME cut/chop/re-weld ???'s

[riotwarrior]

Well without getting into significant details of project other than it's part of Brown Bruin build, it appears I'm going to be doing some cut/join/weld/sectioning of a frame or two.

Now I will start off with # 1 point

I DO NOT HAUL HEAVY...

Truck will be running ton running gear for certain, leaf springs to start.

Just some basic measurements show me I'm OK to cut the two frames and join them together.

Ex cab front section / Bronco rear section. Not 100% on this but wow...looks like a perfect marriage to me


I"m ok with doing my cuts, and making all the joints match, tacking them together and also some supports too keep things straight. I'll get some fish plating done too to keep it all safe/strong

I'm not OK doing the finish welds what so ever those will be done professionally and I'll have the cut/joint section boxed on the inside and more as well.

Here is my quandary, and what I want to know is; has anyone here done a frame sectioning? If so was it to shorten or lengthen the frame? How did you do your cut? was it a Z cut on the frame sections and fit to match, long angular cut what?

I've decided to get this grey truck done and run it as is so to speak, and do all my supercab body work and prep work that frame. I've also considered cutting the back off the cab and sectioning my Bronco's rear portion on so I can have my dreamed of supercab Bronco. Thus the joining of the two frames.

BIG project, going to be calling on some favors for sure and asking for new ones!

Bottom line I just want to hear about how you have successfully sectioned a frame!!!!

Thanks

Al

 

[towcat]

check out "snowdriver's" thread update. got some really neat chop and section frame pics. he's in your neck of the woods too iirc.

 

[cpdenton]

When I used to work at the ford body shop, we would not cut a frame on a new vehicle. That said, done right, and the welded area is stronger than the surrounding area.

Always z-cut, and plate the area. Be sure to shoot the area with some weld through primer. Pay particular attention to the area between the weld and the plating. Don't want it rusting from the inside out later. Only ones I have been involved in we're keeping the same length, so not much help there. You know how to measure diagonally across the rear rails to make sure everything is going back together square, right?

Bottom line, do it right, measure,measure, and measure, and don't worry about it again. It will be good. Did I mention measuring?

 

[icanfixall]

I suppose you can cut it all differant ways but personally I would make the straightest right angle cut. Then bevel it well. All you really want or need of the original thickness is about 1/8 inch. the root pass will burn thru that easily so its actually welding on both sides of the frame in noe pass. Now remember this is onlt the root first pass. No way can uoi add enough rod to fill the bevel at one pass. Your not a production shop with 1/2 mud rod like the WWII ships had for welds. I would look for the same spots on both frames like maybe an unsed bolt hole. You know those are always drilled exactlly the same so its easy to use them for menensional mearurement places. Kind of like making center punch marks to maintain anignment ot didtance between frame pieces. I'm thinking stick weld rod either 7018 or 8018. &0 18 is low hydrogen rod and 8018 is 1 1/4 chrome. Its a bit stronger weld. 9018 is 2 1/4 chrome and a harder still weld. You don't want a weld bead thats stronger than the parent metal is but you do want it a taller weld with no undercutting at the parent metal. Hope I did not loose you there Al. I do get carried away talking about welding and proper Technics.. Probably 118 to 125 amps is what I would run the machine and use some 5/32 or 1/8 rod.. About 1 lbs is all you need. A 50 lb box is not needed. Keep it hot to about 180 degree when welding. That is the rod should be kept hot for the best welds.

 

[ah1988ford]

x2,
7018 1/8in. fresh out of the box for the best welds, they absorb the humidity in the air if you let them sit out.
Make sure all of your tacks are strong and going to hold, you dont want any breaking while you are welding.
DO NOT weld from top to the bottom you will get a TON of slag inclusion, the weld may look good
but is will be of **** poor quality. Weld from bottom up like, weldingtipsandtricks have a vid on doing 7018 verticle you may want to look at. You may already know this, but I feel it is very important to tell a person for a weld like this, it has to be a good solid weld lol.
I agree with the plate idea in cpdenton's post.

 

[hce]

I do not like vertical welds on frames, they always seem to break. I would plate with tapezoid shape plates to avoid vertical welds. Weld top and sides, but not the bottom edge of the plate.

 

[cpdenton]

Found some pretty nice pictures here.

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/429945-shortening-a-long-wheel-base-56-ford-2.html

 

[snowracer]

check out "snowdriver's" thread update. got some really neat chop and section frame pics. he's in your neck of the woods too iirc.

well its snowracer but ill let that slide the frame chop was not as bad as people make it sound. how I did mine was a Z the top of the frame was 2inchs wide so went straight down 1inch then did my angle and then same on the bottom. did a fish plate on the inside, was going to do one on the outside but was not able to fit one

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[ifrythings]

Snowracer, wouldn't welding all sides of your fish plate cause it to be in contraction "mode" after it cools and stress the welds? I'm no welder but I have heard about this before and it makes sense to me.
I also believe the reason for a "Z" cut is to keep all the vertical stress off of a vertical only weld, same goes for the fish plate to be welded on in a diamond shape instead of up and down.

P.S. your welds look awesome

 

[snowracer]

Snowracer, wouldn't welding all sides of your fish plate cause it to be in contraction "mode" after it cools and stress the welds? I'm no welder but I have heard about this before and it makes sense to me.
I also believe the reason for a "Z" cut is to keep all the vertical stress off of a vertical only weld, same goes for the fish plate to be welded on in a diamond shape instead of up and down.

P.S. your welds look awesome

not going lie, im just a idiot with a cut off disk and a welder but I do have some welder buddies and my old man was a welder for 30plus years. main point with the Z cut and diamond fish plate is like you said, vertical stress and so on. but with that being said my dad and uncle did add 4feet to a 73 F350 to make it have a 12foot box they just did straight cuts and square fish plates and that was back in the late 80s. that truck was always over weight and is still around to this day with no issues. so far I have beat mine hard and had zero issues and don't think will ill have any as the leaf spring hangers and the one cross member are all in the same spot as the cut. also there are cross members only a few feet away on both sides so don't think I will have that much frame twist.

but if it does fail I will let everyone know and will fix it and keep going as like I said im just a guy with a grinder and welder

 

[Ruger_556]

Well without getting into significant details of project other than it's part of Brown Bruin build, it appears I'm going to be doing some cut/join/weld/sectioning of a frame or two.

Now I will start off with # 1 point

I DO NOT HAUL HEAVY...

Truck will be running ton running gear for certain, leaf springs to start.

Just some basic measurements show me I'm OK to cut the two frames and join them together.

Ex cab front section / Bronco rear section. Not 100% on this but wow...looks like a perfect marriage to me


I"m ok with doing my cuts, and making all the joints match, tacking them together and also some supports too keep things straight. I'll get some fish plating done too to keep it all safe/strong

I'm not OK doing the finish welds what so ever those will be done professionally and I'll have the cut/joint section boxed on the inside and more as well.

Here is my quandary, and what I want to know is; has anyone here done a frame sectioning? If so was it to shorten or lengthen the frame? How did you do your cut? was it a Z cut on the frame sections and fit to match, long angular cut what?

I've decided to get this grey truck done and run it as is so to speak, and do all my supercab body work and prep work that frame. I've also considered cutting the back off the cab and sectioning my Bronco's rear portion on so I can have my dreamed of supercab Bronco. Thus the joining of the two frames.

BIG project, going to be calling on some favors for sure and asking for new ones!

Bottom line I just want to hear about how you have successfully sectioned a frame!!!!

Thanks

Al

I've done it successfully on heavy trucks (International 4900 series). 90 degree (perpendicular) cut with diamond shaped fish plate... This is after the tandems though. I've seen it done where someone used about a 3ft frame insert where they joined the two frame rails back together.

 

[Lithgow]

Its amazing what you guys can do. I really like my new to me 94 F250, except the long wheelbase. Its such a pain in an urban environment. It would be really nice with a shorter bed! I guess it is possible to cut it down.

 

[riotwarrior]

Ya I just read Snowracer's build thread moments after posting this thread. I like what I see, I've got two frames that I'm considering making into one and as said, it looks like a perfect match for size shape and all on a flat section so I can plate the side with a good diamond and also the top and bottom rails.

AS for welding upwards that's a great tip.

I had planned on stick unless I can get a guy with a TIG to do it. Who knows...if I'm lucky!

Around here I've a few friends who weld professionally so I've got no issues turning over the reins to them once all the prefab etc is handled. One even suggests heating the frame sections mildly prior to welding and post heat too.

I'll do some type of Z of offset cut/join for strength as I'm just not a fan of 90 degree welds on frames.

Thanks guys with snowracers pictures it's really helped out with visualization of what needs happen. Sometimes that is all it takes...a few pictures make it clear.

Thanks and anyone else who has tips, please throw em up for everyone.

 

[Ruger_556]

It can be done with a MIG welder set up correctly... But, emphasis on the set up correctly I would advise most to stick weld it. Vertical up weld for penetration using 6011 for a root pass and 7018 for a cover.

 

[Ruger_556]

Snowracer, wouldn't welding all sides of your fish plate cause it to be in contraction "mode" after it cools and stress the welds? I'm no welder but I have heard about this before and it makes sense to me.
I also believe the reason for a "Z" cut is to keep all the vertical stress off of a vertical only weld, same goes for the fish plate to be welded on in a diamond shape instead of up and down.

P.S. your welds look awesome

It's still vertical stress on the weld with a "Z" cut unless it's done where the two frame rails "fit into each other"