E4od, bullet proof rebuild kit?

NapaBavarian

Dually driver 6.9
Joined
Jun 18, 2005
Posts
2,032
Reaction score
4
Location
Napa CA
I tore my transmission down down longer ago than I will admit in public, at the time I purchased a rebuild kit from Napa auto parts thinking it would be a temporary solution before a zf5, I changed my mind and want room stick with the auto.

In diging around there isn't much information on quality of various kits, I need long term reliability in this heavy ambulance, is there a difference in clutch pack life between this and better kits? I will probably need a shift kit as well, figure this will be around 10,000# empty.
 

riotwarrior

Supporting Member
Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2006
Posts
14,778
Reaction score
483
Location
Cawston BC. Canada
Ya there are differences for sure in clutch materials and so forth.

Also aquiring steel planetaries instead of stock aluminum ones is worth while...

A few here no this trans well...me I am just going aquire all parts hand it over to my magician trans guy and say build it.
 

Macrobb

Full Access Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2016
Posts
2,380
Reaction score
1,234
Location
North Idaho
I think you also want an aux cooler if you are running heavy as well, probably one with a temperature-bypass so that you keep optimum temps as much time as possible.
 

david85

Full Access Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2008
Posts
4,830
Reaction score
1,097
Location
Campbell River, B.C.
Do you plan to turbocharge this thing? How much do you want to spend? You can easily pass $1500 in parts alone.

If you are doing this build yourself, I highly recommend getting both ATSG rebuild manuals; The rebuild book itself (blue), and the update book (green).

Rebuild: https://www.atsg.us/atsg/e4od-1.html
Update: ....hmm can't seem to find a paperback version right now, but it looks similar.

^both of these appear to be available in electronic form if you don't mind getting a CD instead of a book.

You're also going to need some special tools to properly take it apart and put it back together, but if you can cut and weld two pieces of metal together, you can make them from scrap.

Specific upgrades:

For the ultimate, you want to upgrade it to 1995 HD spec or newer in terms of hard parts. That gets you a better input shaft, overdrive gear, forward gear and reverse gear. Older builds all have 3 pinion planetaries with aluminum carriers, while newer ones have a minimum of 4 pinion planetaries with steel carriers (f150 applications may still have 3 pinion). 1993-1994 also introduced a roller bearing center support to replace the undersized brass bushing.

Changing out the front pump to an "F5" (1995 up) will increase fluid flow capacity.

Depending on the amount of torque you anticipate from any future engine upgrades, you can also add extra friction elements to the clutch packs. Exotic materials are also available if you want to spend even more on clutches.

A good quality torque converter is highly recommended since the OEMs are crimped together and tend to explode, sending shrapnel through the transmission. Good quality aftermarket are welded, or brazed. Converters with a billet front cover and 3 clutch packs are usually overkill, but won't hurt. Most upgrade converters are built to this spec anyway since that's what most people want.

Shift kits are ok, but there are three basic types to consider:

1. Electronic. Products like "Banks trans command' simply increase line pressure electronically at the EPC solenoid. This puts more strain on the seals and pistons in the hydraulic system. Not a big deal on an upgraded transmission, but older spec factory builds are prone to cracked pistons on some cases. The converter lockup clutch was known for this (dreaded code 62).

2. Springs & spacers. Same as above, in that these simply increase line pressure. Instead of being plug & play, you will have to drain the trans, drop the pan, and pull the valve body. The advantage is you can tailor each shift individually.

3. Drilling Orifices. This is the most intrusive, but also the best IMO...if done correctly. This method allows you to increase flow to spool valves, accumulators etc. only without having to increase line pressure. The advantage is quick shifting without adding more strain on the hydraulics. The disadvantage is you can't easily reverse permanently drilling a new hole in the valve body separator plate, or in some cases, the casting itself.

But do you need a shift kit?

Keep in mind if you were to add extra frictions to the clutch packs, your surface area will be higher, and it will end up shifting faster from that alone. I went from a 2 element to a 3 element on my overdrive clutch pack and this became the most firm shift. Its a balancing act. So too quick can be more damaging than mushy shifting. If reliability is your main goal, than a firm nudge is all you want. Anything harder, and you're simply putting shock loading on the system.
 

saburai

Supporting Member
Supporting Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2016
Posts
2,201
Reaction score
983
Location
Bokeelia Florida/Catskill mountains NY
Ya there are differences for sure in clutch materials and so forth.

Also aquiring steel planetaries instead of stock aluminum ones is worth while...

A few here no this trans well...me I am just going aquire all parts hand it over to my magician trans guy and say build it.

I wish I had a magician. Several, actually ;)
 

SDEconVan

Supporting Member
Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2014
Posts
229
Reaction score
13
Location
San Diego CA USA Earth
Here's my E4OD build (also BW 1356) It's built to a "Stage 3" which is what you will want to be "bulletproof." I've put this transmission through its' paces and it's a champ. Cost will be close to 3 thousand if you do the work yourself and do the stand alone controller to get the most out of your transmission. As David85 mentioned you will need those things plus a very clean and very precise approach to building the transmission. Tolerances can be tightened up a bit in several places, which will offer better performance. It is strongly recommended to get a TransGo Tugger shift kit along with the pump upgrade. Bypass is strongly recommended. What might seem like an overkill cooling capability is also recommended.

https://www.oilburners.net/threads/1998-e4od-on-the-outside-wait-a-minute.69057/
 

NapaBavarian

Dually driver 6.9
Joined
Jun 18, 2005
Posts
2,032
Reaction score
4
Location
Napa CA
I wanted a shift kit to reduce slippage during shifts and keep line pressures high

The book is on my list, I didn't know about the supplement, I'll get that too

I'm not sure if I'll turbo it or headders, exhaust, and a good intake, I picked up a plasma cnc last month so I could build whate certain van air box I want, I'm not sure my old banks soup bowl would fit in there.

As far as newer HD transmission, I could pick up a 95+ transmission for under a hundred bucks on half price day at you pull it, this time I'll find a way to lift it in the truck...
 

trackspeeder

Stone crusher.
Joined
Dec 21, 2003
Posts
4,091
Reaction score
232
Location
North Branford. CT
Napa uses (used) Trans Star parts in their kits. Borg clutch packs. This is what was used by Ford in their new trannys. I would use the kit that you have. The heavier frictions will require extra machine work in order to stuff more material in pack. On the other hand you can use Alto brand clutch packs. They're a little thinner and make it easier to stuff more material in the packs.

It doesn't matter what brand of frictions you use (Borg or Alto) tolerances are very important. Alto needs to be very tight, otherwise they will not last very long.Always use Alto's spec when assembling a clutch pack.
With Borg, you can use the Ford spec with no problems. But what good is that. Go tighter. :D

TransGo and Sonnax both have very good shift kits. Both achieve the same results, just use different ways to get there.
Stay away from the electronic gadgets. all they do is raise the line pressure without fixing the issues.

In order to make the transmission more stout, you will be tossing some parts in trash. Using a later tranny might save you a buck or two. Depends on the condition, how it was rebuilt in the past plays into the factors. Either way you will be tossing some parts in the trash.

Best thing to do for now is study the ATSG guide. This will be your general reference. To truly bullet proof any E4 or 4R there will be stuff not available in the manual. This is what makes this stuff fun. Lean as you go.:Thumbs Up
 

david85

Full Access Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2008
Posts
4,830
Reaction score
1,097
Location
Campbell River, B.C.
I wanted a shift kit to reduce slippage during shifts and keep line pressures high

The book is on my list, I didn't know about the supplement, I'll get that too

I'm not sure if I'll turbo it or headders, exhaust, and a good intake, I picked up a plasma cnc last month so I could build whate certain van air box I want, I'm not sure my old banks soup bowl would fit in there.

As far as newer HD transmission, I could pick up a 95+ transmission for under a hundred bucks on half price day at you pull it, this time I'll find a way to lift it in the truck...

1995 and newer could be a great way to find a lot of the newer parts at a bargain, provided nothing critical is already worn out. Get a trans that was intended for diesel since it will be more likely to have the goodies you're after. And be aware that the solenoid body is NOT compatible with pre-1995 electronics, but you can swap that part out. The torque converter will also be a 6 stud for powerstrokes, while IDIs had 4 stud.
 

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
91,305
Posts
1,130,019
Members
24,115
Latest member
Tyler9828

Members online

Top