Diesel + Hydrogen = WHOooaaa!

[vegas39]

I had a leak fixed on my radiator last summer at a shop that showed me how to build one of those hydrogen setups, he even offered me a stack of precut plates to build my own but at the time, I knew nothing about it and was a bit dubious.

They swore by the setup but I didnt get to see one work and I am one of those show me the money type of guys that dont believe it till I see it!

 

[THECACKLER]

BIOFARMER93 - I heard once that people will try to destroy what they don't understand.

 

[WrickM]

BIOFARMER93 - I heard once that people will try to destroy what they don't understand.

It's not about destroying it's about proving, explaining, it's about scientific method. I encourage him to experiment, but like my math teachers have always said. . i need to see your work lol

 

[Brutis]

I have to say that is an amazing looking kit! You could sell kits that look that nice. I hope it works well for you! I have looked into it myself, but for now went with a Water/**** kit. I hope it works too! Glad the initial results make you happy.

 

[Brutis]

BIOFARMER93 - I heard once that people will try to destroy what they don't understand.

Good thing that isn't always the case because I'd have to destroy an awful lot of stuff, b/c there's an awful lot of stuff I don't understand

 

[GOOSE]

Jim x 3, You are using HHO as a cataylist and the extra power from a complete burn of the diesel is where the gains are. I believe there may be a viability this way. I slept in science class so I may be mistaken also.

 

[RustyRecycledT]

Your setup makes mine look like a toy! Great job!!!

 

[cetanefreek]

it's not really a catalyst, it's more that the HHO in the combustion chamber helps the flame front propagate better through the combustion chamber thus creating a more complete burn netting more fuel efficiency and power. so it's not that we are trying to create perpetual motion, that's stupid, it's trying to improve the chemical reaction in the combustion chamber netting an improvement in efficiency.

does it work? hell if I know, it seems possible to me but hey.... I've never tried it.

 

[dansvan]

Simple physics. Takes enery to make energy. No free lunch. any gains you see are negated by the means it took to get there.
Read this.
http://www.aardvark.co.nz/hho_scam.shtml

 

[Diesel JD]

Seems an awful lot like propane injection which we know does work to help make a cleaner more efficient burn. If it does work it would be better cause hydrogen is a cleaner fuel and probably safer than LPG and the source is inexpensive, not free because as mentioned you are robbing power from the truck to make the gas. If you decide you want to check the combustion with and without the HHO going I live close and I have a lumy meter. Heck if you just want to have the timing set I'd be glad to do that, no charge. Your setup is probably pretty interesting.

 

[cetanefreek]

Simple physics. Takes enery to make energy. No free lunch. any gains you see are negated by the means it took to get there.
Read this.
http://www.aardvark.co.nz/hho_scam.shtml

ok, let me try again, NO-ONE is talking about trying about trying to produce enough HHO to run their engine on HHO alone, and this guy that is providing "proof" that HHO doesn't work isn't trying it the way these guys are utilizing it.

ok, we'll give it the benefit of the doubt and say that the conversion of mechanical energy to electrical energy then the conversion of electricity into HHO is netting around 70% efficiency. at that point we are going to have to make up the difference with Decreased fuel efficiency. now we have to consider what the effect of the HHO in the intake charge is going to be on the interaction of the fuel and the air in the combustion chamber as the fuel is injected, it will obviously improve it, the question is how much, is it more or less than the missing 30%? that is the question, that is what determines whether this is a net gain or net loss.

 

[dansvan]

What are you missing? If it gains you 4hp it took 4hp out of the alt. to do it. If it gains you 400 it took 400 out of the alt. to do it. Do you really honestly believe that in all of the super smart diesel think tanks in the world around us if this worked at all we would not have seen it in mass production by now? This HHO scam has been around forever.

I am all for out of the box thinking, in fact I encourage it and try to practice it. This has been dissproved so many times and ways its ridiculous. These show up everytime there is an economic downturn. People preying on others hopes for something better.

 

[cetanefreek]

actually if you are gaining 4 HP from just the fuel of the HHO then it's going to take more like 4.7 HP out of the alternator, are you not listening? the potential for gain comes from improving the combustion event by adding another component that will help propagate the flame front better leading to more complete combustion hence less unburnt fuel going out the pipe. this is assuming that you have enough intake charge to completely burn all of the fuel you are injecting.



this isn't a simple plus one minus one equals zero equation. the HHO when produced by current from the alternator and burnt as a standalone fuel is obviously a net loss. if however it can improve the percentage of fuel that is burnt in the combustion chamber as opposed to burning when it's already in the exhaust manifold or not burning at all then there is potential for gain, I don't know if it would be enough to make up for the losses incurred by the parasitic loss in the alternator.

I do know I have seen all sorts of tests proving that HHO will not work as a standalone fuel.... no ****. I have yet to see it tried as an add on system like these guys are building in a lab style enviroment.

as far as him "preying" on someone.... did he try to sell you something? did he try to sell anyone anything? seems to me like he feels it worked for him and he's trying to share his info.

now these "super smart think tanks" do I really need to make a list for you of all the completely retarded things we have all seen them do? some of the stupidest things I've ever seen done were done by "super smart experts"

 

[Brutis]

I had no idea hydrogen was so controversial I'm no scientist, and I understand the concept of using power to make power seems like it may negate the effects. However, from hearing testimonies from people who have tried it, I'm willing to keep it open as an option.

It seems like with diesels (gotta love em) a lot of different things can be introduced to help the fuel burn more completely thus producing the same power from less #2. That would equate to going up the same hill with my foot half way to the floorboards vs. all the way down. Seems possible anyway.

Keep up the good work and experimentation guys - whatever direction you go. The more we research and experiment the better and longer we'll keep our beloved IDIs running

Just my thoughts at 23:47

 

[jim x 3]

I think I found a reference to the JPL paper BioFarmer mentioned. The link to an order form for it is at http://www.sae.org/technical/papers/740600. The abstract indicates that the subject is really the use of a catalytic reactor to produce H2 from gasoline.

I did find a predecessor NASA paper from 1977 at:
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19770016170_1977016170.pdf
This paper was entitled EMISSIONS AND TOTAL ENERGY CONSUMPTION OF A MULTICYLINDER PISTON ENGINE RUNNING ON GASOLINE AND A HYDROGEN_GASOLINE MIXTURE and seemed to be relevant.

The text of this paper was available and I did read it (well, most of it). Here is my summary:

The test engine was an Otto engine rather than a Diesel.

The hydrogen source was 1. bottled H2 or 2. a methanol reformer that used exhaust heat to produce a gaseous mixture of methanol, H2, water, CO, CO2 and methane from methanol as a secondary fuel

No onboard electrolytic system was investigated

The H2 and H2 with other gases produced a faster flame spread during combustion than gasoline alone

Some emissions products were reduced with H2 and some increased

The input energy to produce 36 HP output at the dyno was:

----Gasoline----H2 plus
----alone------gasoline
HP 158.00 158.00
HP 164.00 163.00
HP 175.00 169.00

Average 165.67 163.33

% efficiency 21.7 22.1

My 2 cents: It would be good to know how a diesel would do instead of a gasoline engine. But assuming similar diesel results, and given the inefficiency in onboard electrolytic production of H2 using a 12V alternator and SS reactor, I wouldn’t expect any measurable gain in diesel efficiency.

Regards,