Blown diesel?

[oly_fab]

I was rollin ideas around in my head and was thinking why you could'nt do a blower instead of a turbo? Fuel mileage might take a hit, but my fuel is either cheap or free. I was thinking a vortech type blower with a ricer blowoff valve.

What would the issues be? I mean it's still forced induction. There'd be little to no lag and easy to do on a idi.

Something like this:

You must be registered for see images

Stu

 

[65sixbanger]

Its is possible to run a blower, however it is not as efficient as a regular turbo...

 

[crashnzuk]

I don't believe you'd need a blow-off either since there is no throttle plate to cause a boost spike.
Travis..

 

[gatorman21218]

what about a Detroit blower?

 

[seawalkersee]

Well...if you hang on a month, I will have mine together. I have a spare SC lyin around and am putting it on my setup. It will be on my "rebuild or no" thread which will start to be updated with pix as soon as my new cam gets here.

SWS

 

[oly_fab]

I don't believe you'd need a blow-off either since there is no throttle plate to cause a boost spike.
Travis..

I was thinking to use a blowoff as a way to control boost pressure.

It really wouldnt be that hard to build something like a vortech blower with the cold side of a turbo.

Stu

 

[jwalterus]

since I'm gonna be removing my A/C system (I just don't use it) that seems like the perfec setup for my truck!

 

[FordGuy100]

How about a vortech supercharger AND a turbo? Hmm...which would would you push boost into the other?

 

[Shadetreemechanic]

Here is a vid of a mercedes diesel with a supercharger and turbo. The supercharger gives the low end boost and then turns it over to the turbo at higher rpms.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czV3fwZ73gc
There are some engine shots floating around the interned as well. The car was in Finland.

 

[Shadetreemechanic]

Here is a picture of the motor. FYI the motor didn't last long. Somthing in the bottom end let loose.

 

[sootman73]

to control boost you are gonna have to have the right supercharger. a blow off valve will drop boost really fast when it opens.... it'll prob pop and you'll lose so much power and make lots of smoke very quickly. of course that depends on what size valve you use. i suppose you could keep trying valves to get the boost right....

 

[SparkandFire]

The thing about a turbocharger is that it utilizes waste energy (exhaust heat) to operate. Once that 1100 degree exhaust exits the head, it's gone, no more work can be done with it, that's where the advantage lies with the turbo. The turbo converts the waste energy (heat) into kinetic energy (boost).

A blower, on the other hand, directly takes horsepower from the crank to operate. The net energy balance with a blower is no where near as favorable as that of a turbo.

What I've always heard is that blowers have two uses on internal combustion engines... first, a two stroke diesel (like the Detroits) that have no other way of inducing an intake charge... and second, gas engines that a turbo would not benefit (due to fuel injection issues,dieseling, etc.)

Look at the size difference of the average IDI turbo, and compare that to, say, the blower on a F150 lightning... The blower has to be WAY bigger than the turbo to produce a comparable intake charge pressure.

 

[oly_fab]

The thing about a turbocharger is that it utilizes waste energy (exhaust heat) to operate. Once that 1100 degree exhaust exits the head, it's gone, no more work can be done with it, that's where the advantage lies with the turbo. The turbo converts the waste energy (heat) into kinetic energy (boost).

A blower, on the other hand, directly takes horsepower from the crank to operate. The net energy balance with a blower is no where near as favorable as that of a turbo.

What I've always heard is that blowers have two uses on internal combustion engines... first, a two stroke diesel (like the Detroits) that have no other way of inducing an intake charge... and second, gas engines that a turbo would not benefit (due to fuel injection issues,dieseling, etc.)

Look at the size difference of the average IDI turbo, and compare that to, say, the blower on a F150 lightning... The blower has to be WAY bigger than the turbo to produce a comparable intake charge pressure.

I understand how a turbo and a supercharger work. Point being the idi would'nt need alot of boost and the boost would be all through the rpm range.

It's just an idea, I may buy another holset VGT and cobble something togather at somepoint.

 

[Knuckledragger]

The thing about a turbocharger is that it utilizes waste energy (exhaust heat) to operate. Once that 1100 degree exhaust exits the head, it's gone, no more work can be done with it, that's where the advantage lies with the turbo. The turbo converts the waste energy (heat) into kinetic energy (boost).

A blower, on the other hand, directly takes horsepower from the crank to operate. The net energy balance with a blower is no where near as favorable as that of a turbo.

What I've always heard is that blowers have two uses on internal combustion engines... first, a two stroke diesel (like the Detroits) that have no other way of inducing an intake charge... and second, gas engines that a turbo would not benefit (due to fuel injection issues,dieseling, etc.)

Look at the size difference of the average IDI turbo, and compare that to, say, the blower on a F150 lightning... The blower has to be WAY bigger than the turbo to produce a comparable intake charge pressure.

While you are right about the product of turbocharging, it is not the heat that does the work, it is the exhaust gas charge. The heat is only a byproduct of the combustion process, in no way helping boost performance.

 

[WrickM]

couple points. . .
1. duall charging is done with positive displacement blowers like an eaten or whipple, not with a centrifugal blower. A Centrifugal blower spools kinda like a turbo in that time is required for the turbine to create the pressure differential.

2. a turbo is also a cheaper option. I don't see the need to do anything but work on putting larger turbos on along with supporting mods in you want more power. We can easily get way more air in the cylinders than fuel.