big hp idi

[idibeast]

So i was thinking earlier today, why havent we seen any huge hp idi's running around? I mean as far as i can see, there are 3 weak links in the idi design, headgaskets, fueling, and wrist pins. The headgasket problem is easy, fire rings and custom low compression pistons, and for fuel, what about an injection pump off a cat 3208. But then theres the bottom end, ive heard that 7.3 turbo rods are better, and what if they were cryo'd? Also, just a thought, i know psd rods wont fit our pistons and crank, but the custom pistons could be made to, and i was thinking, is there a size difference between psd and idi cranks, could it work or is lack of sleep finaly starting to show?

 

[79jasper]

I'm highly positive that the crankshafts are completely different. You also do not need low compression pistons. Head studs and a camshaft will do a lot more than you think. Also we have pumps available that will flow nearly twice as much as stock. One's that flow more than that are still in testing stages IIRC. Also i haven't heard of the wrist pins being a problem. When you say high horsepower, how much are you talking exactly?

 

[riotwarrior]

This should be interesting for sure....

 

[79jasper]

This should be interesting for sure....

My thoughts exactly! Lol

 

[riotwarrior]

So i was thinking earlier today, why havent we seen any huge hp idi's running around? I mean as far as i can see, there are 3 weak links in the idi design, headgaskets, fueling, and wrist pins.

Where did you get this delectable information from, or is this supposition and conjecture?

The headgasket problem is easy, fire rings and custom low compression pistons,

Fire rings are not really that easy to do as we have PRE-Cups made of Iconel that are pressed INTO the head that run right through the HG area and cutting rings would be difficult!

and for fuel, what about an injection pump off a cat 3208.

We have our local Mel here whom builds the Moose pump a DB2 hot turbo pump, or a SUPER MOOSE which is even hotter (read more fuel)
Justin has his site which does have a DB2/4 hibrid pump puts out tons of fuel...

But then theres the bottom end, ive heard that 7.3 turbo rods are better, and what if they were cryo'd?

Our stock rods are good to at least 400HP if not more....NMB2 did a build with a 6.9 and his rods are fine...damn near 400HP

Turbo rods have a larger pin stock 28 mm pin turbp 33 mm pin both good, cryo good shot peen good....

Also, just a thought, i know psd rods wont fit our pistons and crank, but the custom pistons could be made to, and i was thinking, is there a size difference between psd and idi cranks, could it work or is lack of sleep finaly starting to show?

Um $$$$$$$$$$$ comes to mind once you mention custom built pistons....more $$$$$$$$ than worth...

YES LACK OF SLEEP SHOWING IT'S UGLY HEAD AGAIN.....

 

[tanman_2006]

X2 what do you consider a high hp idi? There are a few 6.5's over or near 300hp and nmb2 was over 350hp iirc. Those numbers are good enough for the tow rigs these idis were meant to be.

 

[icanfixall]

Psd rods are 134 thousands wider at the bottom end. So the psd pranks will be differant too. Other thatn that the psd rod is demensionally the same as any idi rod turbo or not. Even the psd piston will fit the idi but wont work because of it dish design. Far as I know a psd head wil not fit our idi block nor will the psd exhaust manifold fit our idi head.

 

[Devon Harley]

There was a flow test done on Idi heads on a real flow bench an they flow better than a 6.0 head. All that's needed is custom manifolds which are easy an a port match clean up good to go!

 

[riotwarrior]

There was a flow test done on Idi heads on a real flow bench an they flow better than a 6.0 head. All that's needed is custom manifolds which are easy an a port match clean up good to go!

Can you substantiate this with documentation and such, I'd love to see this data...

Al

 

[kc0stp]

As others have said whats your defination of high HP? and fyi the wrist pins arent a weak point

Can you substantiate this with documentation and such, I'd love to see this data...

Al

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1192189-7-3-idi-head-flow-numbers.html

 

[Goofyexponent]

OK, This is going to boil over as soon as more members read this...so let's recap what we learned from NMB2's build.

It takes a LOT of coin to get that kind of horsepower. I don't mean like a grand or two for a tuner and exhaust like a PSD or duramax to make power, I mean like 5 or 6 grand to even BEGIN to touch 300 flywheel horsepower.

Justin used a borg warner SM362 turbo of a C7 cat, a MAJORLY tuned IP that flowed like mel's supermoose pump. You can't just expect to turn up your stock IP and turbo it and expect a PILE of power.

I was goign to build a screamer of an IDI when I had $5000 cash in my hand....but I said no chance in you know where could I afford it. the head studs and gasket kit were going to run me a grand locally. Then I need to have the heads ported out, valves done, piston rings re done, buy a pump, get my hands on a bigger turbo, the exhaust and intake needed to be done over....that eats up cash in a hurry!

Sure, can it be done? I think so. It's been done before, but we had no idea how it would hold up in the long run. I haven't heard of any mojor failure YET, but I think you are barking up the wrong tree.

I think it would be just as cheap to do a cummins swap (Shoot me, I know...but that's the route I am looking at now) and have more of a user friendly aftermarket to deal with.

Most of the problem lies in teh fact that there isn't a HUGE aftermarket for these engines. They are doing the job that they were designed to do though.....RUN FOREVER!

 

[Blind Driver2]

I see the Super Moose being mentioned, but I have yet to read of one being sold.

Does anyone actually have one?

After my intercooler gets installed, and if my EGTs are nice and cool, I'm going to seriously consider head studs and a larger pump. It might be a Super moose, it might be one from R&D. It'll will start out being used with my ATS 088 turbo because I'm getting 15+ psi now, but I would like the boost to come on at a much lower rpm.

 

[FordGuy100]

OK, This is going to boil over as soon as more members read this...so let's recap what we learned from NMB2's build.

It takes a LOT of coin to get that kind of horsepower. I don't mean like a grand or two for a tuner and exhaust like a PSD or duramax to make power, I mean like 5 or 6 grand to even BEGIN to touch 300 flywheel horsepower.

Justin used a borg warner SM362 turbo of a C7 cat, a MAJORLY tuned IP that flowed like mel's supermoose pump. You can't just expect to turn up your stock IP and turbo it and expect a PILE of power.

I was goign to build a screamer of an IDI when I had $5000 cash in my hand....but I said no chance in you know where could I afford it. the head studs and gasket kit were going to run me a grand locally. Then I need to have the heads ported out, valves done, piston rings re done, buy a pump, get my hands on a bigger turbo, the exhaust and intake needed to be done over....that eats up cash in a hurry!

Sure, can it be done? I think so. It's been done before, but we had no idea how it would hold up in the long run. I haven't heard of any mojor failure YET, but I think you are barking up the wrong tree.

I think it would be just as cheap to do a cummins swap (Shoot me, I know...but that's the route I am looking at now) and have more of a user friendly aftermarket to deal with.

Most of the problem lies in teh fact that there isn't a HUGE aftermarket for these engines. They are doing the job that they were designed to do though.....RUN FOREVER!

A hot pump: $1500
Turbo based off of 093: $1000
Cam: $300
Extra stuff needed (electric fuel setup, gauges, etc), $500
I would need a clutch more than likely: $500

So thats an easy $3-4K

 

[OLDBULL8]

So i was thinking earlier today,

I get an awful headache when I do that. OK, so it's only an hour gone by. Me thinks, damn headache, you guys shot the beast down.

 

[88 Ford]

OK, This is going to boil over as soon as more members read this...so let's recap what we learned from NMB2's build.

It takes a LOT of coin to get that kind of horsepower. I don't mean like a grand or two for a tuner and exhaust like a PSD or duramax to make power, I mean like 5 or 6 grand to even BEGIN to touch 300 flywheel horsepower.

Justin used a borg warner SM362 turbo of a C7 cat, a MAJORLY tuned IP that flowed like mel's supermoose pump. You can't just expect to turn up your stock IP and turbo it and expect a PILE of power.

I was goign to build a screamer of an IDI when I had $5000 cash in my hand....but I said no chance in you know where could I afford it. the head studs and gasket kit were going to run me a grand locally. Then I need to have the heads ported out, valves done, piston rings re done, buy a pump, get my hands on a bigger turbo, the exhaust and intake needed to be done over....that eats up cash in a hurry!

Sure, can it be done? I think so. It's been done before, but we had no idea how it would hold up in the long run. I haven't heard of any mojor failure YET, but I think you are barking up the wrong tree.

I think it would be just as cheap to do a cummins swap (Shoot me, I know...but that's the route I am looking at now) and have more of a user friendly aftermarket to deal with.

Most of the problem lies in teh fact that there isn't a HUGE aftermarket for these engines. They are doing the job that they were designed to do though.....RUN FOREVER!

Racin's engine is actually a darn near stock build that is actually pushing close to, if not more than 400hp now. Iirc he is close to 200k miles on it and has been pushing over 350hp for the last 20k or so. Rebuilds cost quite a bit in general. It just depends on what power level you want to attain. I see no reason at all why someone couldn't just bolt on a better turbo and IP plus the supporting bolt on type mods and easily get 300hp.

Also as far as it being easier to hit higher horsepower on newer diesels or even a 12v Cummins for that matter, it is easy to get 400-500hp easy but when you get much above that, you are spending some cash no matter how you look at it. I mean turbos and head studs and other mods like that start to add up quickly. I guess it just really depends what you want in the end. As for me, I plan on helping push the idi platform further. I want to see what kind of punishment my stock rebuild can take. As more people start to push these engines further, we will really know what they can take in the long run. What we all have to realize is that even engines like the Cummins had to have the boundaries pushed so that everyone knew what kind of mods worked and then others in the future could copy that blueprint. This applies to the idi as well even though it had come a bit later cus of the lack of aftermarket support.