A little more power cheap or easy?

[dunk]

Truck is an '86 F-350 6.9 with non wastegate Banks setup. Towed my boat with it for the first time this weekend and it was a terrible experience. The truck is pretty slow unloaded, but towing is downright painful. Pulling maybe 5000 lbs-ish or a tad more. I'm used to 460 power and torque in the same truck and this is just terrible. My girl didn't say anything about the truck being slow driving unloaded, probably because even with all the big block torque I'm used to in my other truck I drive pretty conservatively. She noticed while towing and asked if the new truck is really that slow. Sadly it is. I was hoping this thing would redeem itself and not be drastically slower towing.

Things I've observed. Unloaded EGT at 65-70 is around 400*-500* cruising level. Towing it's about 600* cruising at 55-60 MPH. After accelerating wide open after rolling into it gently from a stop up to 55 MPH or so is 900*, and believe me it had a LOT of time to get there. Smoke is grayish, somewhat dark and clearly visible but not at all black. Max boost while accelerating 7-8 psi.

Have a minor exhaust leak, not sure if pre or post turbo as it's tight and I haven't got to finding it yet. I have not notice any change in PSI or when it starts to spool since it developed a minor leak. I want to ensure no leaks though and that I'm getting max psi this turbo will do for me. Aside from leaks, will wrapping the exhaust help or is it a waste of time? Given max EGT I've seen accelerating of 900* should I see if the pump can be turned up any more? Timing is at 9*, and when i set that (it was at 6.5*) it made a huge difference is low end torque. Should I try bumping it to 10*? What else can I do to get more power out of this? I can live with it just being gutless if there's no way around it but it really sucks. Not at a point that I can pull the engine and do studs and spend a few grand on a new turbo setup. Don't have the time or budget for that just yet. Looking for tuning or cheaper/easier improvements to make it tolerable for the time being.

 

[89Laredo]

You still have a little room to play with egt wise. Maybe try turning it up another flat, you can always back it off a little if you get too hot. 1200 max.

What trans and gears? C6 is a power hog and 3.55s won't help you any.

 

[79jasper]

What's the condition of your injectors?
IMO, you shouldn't really be seeing any smoke.
Can you describe the sound of the exhaust leak? And just look for soot.

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[ammocan]

White smoke is coolant. Blue smoke is bad rings and oil and black smoke is unburned fuel. If you constantly have grey smoke you may have an internal engine problem. I would check for a coolant leak in the head gasket and maybe check for compression. I also had a big block 460 and by comparison you should not be lacking any on torque with your 6.9. It wont have the rubber burning ability of the 460 but pulling should not be such a bad experience.

 

[dunk]

OK, so it can take more fuel temperature wise... I'll see about turning it up another flat. Trans is C6 and 3.55:1 gears. My 460 truck that outpulls this has 3.55:1 gears and is turning 35" tires though it does have a ZF5, the 6.9 is all stock everything aside from the banks turbo. I was hoping the diesel while slow normally, wouldn't notice a load quite as much as the 460 does. Eventually this truck will get a ZF5. 4.10:1 is not an option, this thing is bad enough on the highway turning 2600-3000 RPM in the 65-75 MPH range. ZF5 should get me close to 2000 RPM at 70 MPH. Highway MPG as best I can tell (don't do a lot of straight highway for hundreds of miles) is 13-13.5 while best MPG in normal mixed city/highway is 14.1 MPG.

Injectors unknown condition, allegedly never rolled odometer so if true that would be 84k on injectors and pump. Could have rolled but after owning a half dozen of these trucks with a few hundred thousand miles if it has rolled I'd say it hasn't rolled more than once. Exhaust leak is a tick mostly heard under heavier load... Like a small leak at a manifold flange or a clamp.

Graysmoke is only at or near wide open and mostly clears up after 2000-2200 RPM or so when the turbo starts working. I notice it also sometimes briefly on a cold start and after idling for a long time it'll smoke a at light to moderate throttle for a minute or so then clear up once back to driving normally. Not losing any coolant and not overheating. It does burn a little oil, haven't kept track exactly how much but maybe 1 qt per 1000 miles? Seems high but I asked here about it before and general consensus was whatever amount I noticed was fairly typical for these engines and not enough on its own to worry. It starts easy and runs well so no obvious signs there. I think I ordered a compression tester for this a while back but haven't got around to checking it, I should do that.

For what it's worth the 460 I'm used to is not a stock 80s smog engine, it's desmogged high compression and should be putting out north of 500 ft/lbs with a long flat curve. I built it specifically for torque and towing when I got sick of towing with a stock smogger 351w as that was a truly unpleasant experience.

 

[89Laredo]

Like I said, the c6 is a power hog. I have a 6.9/c6 and they suck.
If you are trying to pull at 70mph all of the time that is part of your problem. Hell, mine struggles to do 70 empty.

Your mileage seems a little low.
My truck gets ~16 mixed driving and isn't in the best condition. I've gotten 18 highway driving 65.

I'd get your injectors tested. Pump may be tired too. I think the general thought here is that they are pretty used up by 100k.
Fix the leak.

Smoke after idling sounds like wet stacking. You may have a cylinder low on compression. My old motor would do this and could fog out a 4 lane road when I finally took off from idling.

1qt/1000 mi is fine

The idi will be no comparison to your 460 unless you put some money into it. You have ~350tq with the idi and it's down pretty low.

 

[icanfixall]

Fix the exhaust leak before doing anything else. Any leak cuts down the ability for the turbo to power the intake side of the turbo. Its just that simple. As posted. Look around the exhaust for soot on the joints or the firewall. Also the stock exhaust from the turbo back is junk. We have found changing it to 3 or 4 inch and run no muffler changes lots. Not back pressure and lower xhaust temps are common. Injection pumps and injectors usually are worn out around 125,000 miles. Some get more and some get less. Please don't think your getting the best ebay deal by buying the least costly pump or injectors. Read the Hall of shame forum to know who the ebay rip off sellers are. I wish this site and a Hall of Fame for the sellers that give good deals and great after care but we don't. We just have the bad guys and they got there by doing some horrible crap to many good people.

 

[79jasper]

Grey smoke is usually a timing issue, or leaky injector.

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[Black dawg]

I would check that you are getting full throttle before turning up the pump. Wrapping the turbo pipes makes a good difference on a laggy non gated set up, maybe not a huge deal though with the auto.

I tow regularly with a big block and my diesel, both are similar geared and manual transmissions.
on flat ground the big block feels like it does a slightly better job (300hp/450tq), but on hills (and big passes) the 454 feels broken compared to my idi. (7.3 ats non gated, 6.0 intercooler, maxed injection pump).

 

[CDX825]

I wouldn't advance the timing any more than 9.6 degrees.

 

[oregon96psd]

I can live with it just being gutless if there's no way around it but it really sucks.

Fix all the little problems, max out the pump, then after that this ^^^^

 

[jayro88]

5k shouldn't cause much of an issue. I have trailered my car a number of times with my N/A '88 e250....total weight about 5k. The van isn't fast to begin with, but the trailer didn't seem to effect it to much. Just set the CC for 65 and went. I didn't see where you posted what kind of boost numbers you were seeing? As far as MPG numbers, 70mph with the c6 isn't going to do too well due to the lack of OD and the non-locking torque converter. Slowing to 65mph would probably help alot. Depending on the towing you plan to do with it you can always look into a lower stall torque converter to make the power transfer more efficient.

I would suggest replacing the IP/Injectors if you have no history on them.....they are a maintenance items anyway. Rework the exhaust and wrap the turbo pipes. I believe the Banks already has an upgraded downpipe.....someone correct me if I am wrong. With your EGTs you can turn your fuel up. Just remember that at some point your Banks is going to run out of efficiency. Adding an inter-cooler would help with this and allow for more fuel.

I guess it depends on what our definition of cheap is and how you plan on using the truck. Just don't expect the IDI to be something it is not. It will get you where you need to go and will tow well for you, just not fast. It is simple, reliable and easy to work on.

 

[Agnem]

You still have a little room to play with egt wise. Maybe try turning it up another flat, you can always back it off a little if you get too hot. 1200 max.

What trans and gears? C6 is a power hog and 3.55s won't help you any.

HOLD ON THERE! I didn't see anybody ask where his pyrometer probe is, and since he has a banks, there is a darn good chance it is on the turbo or POST turbo. Which means, at 900 degrees, he is maxed out if so! Best recommendation is to make sure that pyrometer probe is within 3" of the exhaust manifold so when we talk temps, we are all talking about the SAME thing.

 

[4x4manonbroke]

5k shouldn't cause much of an issue. I have trailered my car a number of times with my N/A '88 e250....total weight about 5k. The van isn't fast to begin with, but the trailer didn't seem to effect it to much. Just set the CC for 65 and went. I didn't see where you posted what kind of boost numbers you were seeing? As far as MPG numbers, 70mph with the c6 isn't going to do too well due to the lack of OD and the non-locking torque converter. Slowing to 65mph would probably help alot. Depending on the towing you plan to do with it you can always look into a lower stall torque converter to make the power transfer more efficient.

I would suggest replacing the IP/Injectors if you have no history on them.....they are a maintenance items anyway. Rework the exhaust and wrap the turbo pipes. I believe the Banks already has an upgraded downpipe.....someone correct me if I am wrong. With your EGTs you can turn your fuel up. Just remember that at some point your Banks is going to run out of efficiency. Adding an inter-cooler would help with this and allow for more fuel.

I guess it depends on what our definition of cheap is and how you plan on using the truck. Just don't expect the IDI to be something it is not. It will get you where you need to go and will tow well for you, just not fast. It is simple, reliable and easy to work on.

I Agree, Its not a cummins truck, and slow down to 62-65, my truck hates pulling faster than 62-65, unless were about to hit a big long hill, then I plow it up to about 75 and let the hill drag me down...
With that said , I did pull an Excursion (6.0 blew up .. go figure) .. trailer and all , it was about 12,500... My truck was not happy , but pulled just fine, I took my time and managed to get 15 while loaded. I typically get around 18-20 depending on the freeway speed and terrain , city i get 17-18mpg ..

 

[4x4manonbroke]

HOLD ON THERE! I didn't see anybody ask where his pyrometer probe is, and since he has a banks, there is a darn good chance it is on the turbo or POST turbo. Which means, at 900 degrees, he is maxed out if so! Best recommendation is to make sure that pyrometer probe is within 3" of the exhaust manifold so when we talk temps, we are all talking about the SAME thing.

I agree, Your dead on !!!! if the Pyro is behind turbo He's nearly melting a Piston pulling hard up hills .... Need to get a better idea of where the pyro is ..