96 CTD Injector problem

[turbo69]

Alrighty guys-

I'm not a CTD man yet, but who knows.

I'm posting this for my brother...and me...

He's got a 96 2500 4x4 with a 12v in it. Earlier today, it started to run rough and lost power, but it is still barely drivable. This thing idles and drives like it's down on a cylinder. In fact, you can hear it and feel it like an old v8 with a bad plug.

From the diagnosis that I have tried to do so far, everything points to the #5 injector. I can crack 5 out of the 6 injectors and the idle will change. On #5 when I crack the injector, the idle does not change, and fuel will spit out between the nut and the injector. This is why I think it's that particular injector.

Now for the dumb@$$ part. I CAN NOT get the injector out of the hole!!! I take the pressure line off, take the return line off, take the nut off the injector that holds it in, but it won't pull out!!! Is there anything special that I need to do to get the injector out of the hole? On all of my Ford, the entire injector screwed in to the heads. I don't guess that this is the case...

Please help! :***:

 

[rubberfish]

Hey stranger.
You'll need to "pop" them out.
Thread the nut back on a bit.
Put a wrench under this nut,
and lean it against the exhaust
manifold or where ever else you feel
comfortable banging with a hammer
and use the hammer to bang on the
wrench and pop out the injector.

Hope that makes sense.
The longer they've been in
the harder they'll be to get out.

 

[turbo69]

I tried basically that same thing, but with the injector line nut threaded on, prying up with a pry bar(about 3' long) against the exhaust manifold but I did not want to put too much pressure against it. Can I really lean on that thing?

I wonder if I ought to put a little penetrating oil in the hole first...

 

[rubberfish]

Sorry man. I went out for a bit.
Ya, you can pry hard. Do what you need too.
It's got to come out. I like using a wrench and
resting the center of the wrench against the manifold
and whack the other end of it with a BIG hammer.
You may have to swear and put the wrench back
and whack it a second or third time before it
comes loose. Depends on how old they are.
It seems that the shock of the hammer works.

 

[hugeredford]

hit the ignition I alway put neversieze back mon them when they go back in

 

[argve]

I had some of mine that didn't want to come out I had to use two pry bars on them (one on each side) because when you only use one it will tip the injector a bit and it will cause it to hang or drag on one side. Number 5 doesn't leave much room to work but atleast it's not number 6.... You can clean up the tips on these when you get them out and try it - I have heard reports from guys that they have had pretty good sucess bringing them back to life by cleaning the junk off the tip (bad spray pattern).

 

[turbo69]

I got the injector out of the hole, and clened her up, but to no avail. I'm going to try and find a place local to Dallas that can do a pop off test on this thing to see if it's good or not. I guess I'll end up putting a new one in it.

 

[turbo69]

Well, I got good news and bad news...

Good news, It's not the Injector. I got adventurous and swapped #4 and #5.

Bad news- Problem stayed at #5. Dead hole. I don't think it's fuel related because if I crack that line, I get what I think is plenty of fuel at the line nut. Come to think of it, it gets the most of all of the holes.

I'm thinking it may be mechanical. What's the recommended way to check the compression on these cummins motors? I'm going to pull the valve cover off next and check for bent/broken valves or broken valve springs, but I'm thinking I won't find anything.

Ideas???

 

[argve]

Well in a diesel all you need is compression and fuel to make it go boom - since you know your getting fuel then I would check for compression. so yep I would pull that valve cover and see what you see. You can reuse the valve cover gasket if you don't tear it up. If you have a broken valve spring let me know because I think I have a stock one hanging out in the garage... don't quote me on that but I should have saved all the old parts...

 

[turbo69]

Thanks Travis-

I'll give it a look tonight or maybe tomorrow and see what I can find. Other that putting the IP on a test stand, Is there any way to check to see that the pressures at each injector are correct? Or should I stick with the theory that if I get fuel, it's enough fuel.

By the way, I would like to know if the injectors are stock or not. There is "0325" stamped on them, and the only other thing that I can make out is that is says something about "260 bar" on it also. I think this may relate to the opening pressure or something, but I don't know.

 

[rubberfish]

Other that putting the IP on a test stand, Is there any way to check to see that the pressures at each injector are correct? Or should I stick with the theory that if I get fuel, it's enough fuel.

When I was over talking to Piers last week,
we were talking about exactly that. turbo69
you'd be safe assuming what you got is enough
if it looks like the same amount as the other 5.

 

[turbo69]

It's kinda funny, #5 looks like it's getting more, no matter which injector is in the hole. I'll assume though, it's okay.

 

[turbo69]

Well, after pulling the valve covers and seeing that the vale train is good, I talked to Bryant here at my local DIS. I still need to do the compression test on her, but I think that compression will prove good. DIS seems to think that the IP has taken a turn for the worse. He told me to pull the faulty injector, hook it back up to the pump, and crank the motor and watch for either streaming of fuel (being bad), or atomizing of fuel (being good). I'm thinking that It will show bad because as I said in as earlier post, #5 seems to get more fuel that the others. Also, now that I look, I'm getting a little black smoke at idle and hard acceleration, with a hint of white, most likely unburnt fuel.

I'm not too privy as to the workings of the CTD IP, but I would assume that it works similar to the stanadynes on the IDI Fords. But then again, I may be wrong. I know the CTD's are different, comomn rail I think they call it. Is there a possibility that one part could be bad, and not the enitre IP?

Thanks for all the help guys...

 

[argve]

I know from hanging out on various ctd sites that a pump failure is very uncommon. there is an overflow valve that could very well be bad that seems to be a common deal.

http://www.dodgeram.org/tech/dsl/troubleshooting/12v_trouble.htm#low_power

and

http://www.dodgeram.org/tech/dsl/troubleshooting/injector_pump.htm#Overflow

check both of these before going any further... Again the injection pumps on these trucks last for like a million miles dude and the injectors are about the same... this is not like the IDI's where you have a fuel lubed system the injection pumps are oil lubed so they last and last because they are getting the correct amount of lube all the time.

 

[turbo69]

Thanks again Travis.

That may be the answer I was looking for.

I'll check that next.