twofazed
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2003 F-250 12v Conversion Project Thread
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averagef250
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Looking good. You can remove every dodge sensor off the engine and get it ready to go in by putting the Ford water temp and oil pressure senders in.
If you don't know the thorough history of the engine replace the headgasket now. I've done many C conversions. 80% of the used engines I've bought have had blown headgaskets. Many times people have no idea the gasket is even blown until it's fixed and the engine runs smoother and has more power. When you have the head off and the valvetrain apart check for wear in the rocker shafts. If the engine was poorly maintained and not allowed to warm up for a minute when it was started you will see galling in the rocker arm bores and on the rocker shafts, if the valves were never adjusted you may see wear on the valve stem tips too. The tappet cover gasket and front/rear seals are a good idea to replace when you have it out too. Just make absolutely sure you install the seals dry.
If you don't know the thorough history of the engine replace the headgasket now. I've done many C conversions. 80% of the used engines I've bought have had blown headgaskets. Many times people have no idea the gasket is even blown until it's fixed and the engine runs smoother and has more power. When you have the head off and the valvetrain apart check for wear in the rocker shafts. If the engine was poorly maintained and not allowed to warm up for a minute when it was started you will see galling in the rocker arm bores and on the rocker shafts, if the valves were never adjusted you may see wear on the valve stem tips too. The tappet cover gasket and front/rear seals are a good idea to replace when you have it out too. Just make absolutely sure you install the seals dry.
BIG DAVE
OILBURNER FOR LIFE!
i'm goin to keep my eye on this build
keep up the good work
keep up the good workaveragef250
Full Access Member
These engines do not have sleeves. You will not have a "new" engine unless you spend considerably more than a grand. I know where to buy parts and can do most machinework in house. If you must have "new" expect to have $5000+ tied up into it.
These engines are rated per cummins to last an average of 350K road miles at most fuel rates. Higher fuel rates, RPM and marine use cut life down. These engine's realistically last 500,000-1,000,000 miles in a dodge with good maintenance and tall rear end gears. They last around 400K in a dodge that tows heavily and 150-200K in a 26K pound medium duty or motorhome chassis. What almost always deams them unfit for further use is oil consumption past the rings and blowby. In rough service medium duty 26K use when they get to the point of using too much oil (200K or so) nothing more than a half-ass inframe involving pulling the head, dropping the pan, berry honing and installing new rings will get another 200K out of the same engine. The main bearings last forever if the oils changed every 10-15K and rod bearings last equally if the engine is warmed up, if it's started and put to the floor you will see wear in the rods (most ag engines see a lot of rod bearing wear from intelligent people putting the engine at defuel to get the hydraulics to work faster).
In a nutshell you will not get a new engine unless you buy a new one from Cummins or Iveco or spend a ton of money on yours. All that work, all that money and you will have a new engine that doesn't run nearly as well as one that has 200K pickup miles on it and is thoroughly broke in.
Maintain the engine, don't unnecessarily overhaul it unless you have time and money to burn. As I've told every customer I've done a Cummins swap for- These engines leak, some of them leak A lot, they are not indestructible and you can easily spend $15,000 on just the engine and have it be worth $3000 afterwards because they are throway engines, they are everywhere.
BIG DAVE
OILBURNER FOR LIFE!
you should beabul to get thoughs parts at a auto parts store
i alway get lil stuff like that from car-guest but i'm in alaska so i don't really have anywhere eles to go
just my 2 cent'saveragef250
Full Access Member
RTV under the yoke nut does a better job than the spline seal. Any parts store or wrecking yard should be able to get you the position sensor. You obviously don't need the dodge t-case vacuum crap so make sure the parts person you deal with knows what you're talking about.
All the little crap that pops it's head when you put dodge parts in a non-dodge is why I use as many of the original pieces as possible. It's so much easier to use the ford t-case on the NV4500 than re-invent everything using the dodge 241.
Most NV4500's need a mainshaft and 5th gear past 150K anyway so for a 4x4 Ford swap with an NV4500 or 5600 or G56 I buy a new 2wd or longer option mainshaft and have it resplined to Ford 31 or 24 spline a case hardened. Then the Ford case bolts right up, you don't have the dodge U-joint straps, all the linkage fits as it should and the install looks like it came that way.
Another way to look at it is that dodge boys kill those 29 spline 241DHD cases frequently, they're always in demand. Selling that case for a average going rate will more than likely pay for all the parts to mate the stock ford case.
All the little crap that pops it's head when you put dodge parts in a non-dodge is why I use as many of the original pieces as possible. It's so much easier to use the ford t-case on the NV4500 than re-invent everything using the dodge 241.
Most NV4500's need a mainshaft and 5th gear past 150K anyway so for a 4x4 Ford swap with an NV4500 or 5600 or G56 I buy a new 2wd or longer option mainshaft and have it resplined to Ford 31 or 24 spline a case hardened. Then the Ford case bolts right up, you don't have the dodge U-joint straps, all the linkage fits as it should and the install looks like it came that way.
Another way to look at it is that dodge boys kill those 29 spline 241DHD cases frequently, they're always in demand. Selling that case for a average going rate will more than likely pay for all the parts to mate the stock ford case.
BIG DAVE
OILBURNER FOR LIFE!
any updates?
averagef250
Full Access Member
I'd have to look at a 241 to refresh my memory, I don't recall if they actually have the vacuum switch and a sensor or if it's just the vacuum switch and the 4x4 sensor is on the front axle CAD.
I use Torque King shafts and gears from Quad4x4. They seam to hold up very well. Anything else I've seen or used hasn't come close to the quality or actually addressed the problem.
I use Torque King shafts and gears from Quad4x4. They seam to hold up very well. Anything else I've seen or used hasn't come close to the quality or actually addressed the problem.
averagef250
Full Access Member
My recommendation-
Power hone just enough to break glaze. If there's a ridge toss it and buy another block. It will be cheaper. If you feel the urge to buy pistons 7163's or 7140's are open chamber and the same compression. You can run marine injectors without a ton of smoke and the open bowls seam to have a real efficiency advantage over the dodge and newer engine emission pistons. If someone in the area will balance it for under a few hundred go for it, it doesn't hurt.
ARP studs are a good choice to spend extra on. I run them at 150 lb/ft. If you follow the ARP instructions you might be replacing the gasket in 5 minutes.
The crank should be fine, the main bearings should be fine, but replace them as the thrust bearings fail at some point from harmonics.
Check the main line, but don't cut the caps and hone it just because. Odds are extremely high the engine builder you have found has poor equipment compared to what these blocks were originally machined on. Redoing the main line changes the geartrain clearance so why do it unnecessarily?
I think I said it before, but really you would have been far better off to run a compression test on what you had, get a valve job and put a good new head gasket in it. These things run better when they've had the **** run out of them for 300K in a dodge than they do when they're brand new.
Don't cut stuff just to cut stuff! If your machinist is already talking about cutting the main line go somewhere else. You'll end up with a huge bill, an engine that runs undersize or oversize everything and doesn't run as strong as an old used one.
Power hone just enough to break glaze. If there's a ridge toss it and buy another block. It will be cheaper. If you feel the urge to buy pistons 7163's or 7140's are open chamber and the same compression. You can run marine injectors without a ton of smoke and the open bowls seam to have a real efficiency advantage over the dodge and newer engine emission pistons. If someone in the area will balance it for under a few hundred go for it, it doesn't hurt.
ARP studs are a good choice to spend extra on. I run them at 150 lb/ft. If you follow the ARP instructions you might be replacing the gasket in 5 minutes.
The crank should be fine, the main bearings should be fine, but replace them as the thrust bearings fail at some point from harmonics.
Check the main line, but don't cut the caps and hone it just because. Odds are extremely high the engine builder you have found has poor equipment compared to what these blocks were originally machined on. Redoing the main line changes the geartrain clearance so why do it unnecessarily?
I think I said it before, but really you would have been far better off to run a compression test on what you had, get a valve job and put a good new head gasket in it. These things run better when they've had the **** run out of them for 300K in a dodge than they do when they're brand new.
Don't cut stuff just to cut stuff! If your machinist is already talking about cutting the main line go somewhere else. You'll end up with a huge bill, an engine that runs undersize or oversize everything and doesn't run as strong as an old used one.
Captain Morgan
Pipeline Mechanic
Cummins Kits can be had for way less than that, even in Canadian....
averagef250
Full Access Member
I think I would just go buy a whole great running 12 valve for <$1500.
Something most people new to this stuff overlook is the longblock itself is a very small expense. The fuel system, turbo and transmission is where all your money goes. If you blow it up throw it away and get another one.
Something most people new to this stuff overlook is the longblock itself is a very small expense. The fuel system, turbo and transmission is where all your money goes. If you blow it up throw it away and get another one.
I don't mean to hyjack but why would you install the gaskets dry I thought that you were supposed to oil the valve cover gaskets.
crashnzuk
Full Access Member
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