hey yall gotta 6.9 in my boat

plywood

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One thing I'd like explained to me, I didn't know is, plywoods great point of interest regarding "the diesels in boats is that they actually have a correction in the timing curve for load".

Could you tell us how this works or its principals??

I woke up to some pretty kewl stuff here this morning... keep it coming.

Yep, I read that whole post.LOL

Ok, well I've been up on a roof all week tearing off and fixing rotten plywood on a 12/12 pitch roof this week, and of course it has to rain, no damage, just a pita.

Anyway, about the timing curve, assuming that there is not a marine application Injector Pump for the particular diesel engines put into a work boat, then the IP such as the ones in our trucks have a mechanically operated cam that is based on throttle position. As the throttle is increased, the IP retards the timing to allow for load. At the same time, as rpms increase, the IP housing pressure increases, and advances the timing. These two functions work simultaneously, sort of with, or against each other.

On older gas engines in vehicles, you would have the same situation, except you had centrifical advance, in the distributor, with a vacuum retard to account for load, but in the Inboard/Outboard boats with the same old 350 chevys and 4 cyl Iron Dukes, there was only a centrifical advance, but no port for vacuum retard. The 2 stroke outboards had a mechanically operated advance relative to throttle position, with no correction for load either.

With smaller boats with small fast spinning props this works well enough cause there is more prop slip under load that just lets the engine spin somewhat til the boat catches up if someone guns it so to speak. But with a work boat and a very large diameter prop that really bites, if you load that boat it will really load the engine more if full throttle is applied, in which case it would seem benificial to have the retard function for the timing curve.

I parted out a turbo 7.3l block recently that had a couple bad rod bearings, could be that it was run without oil, but later I noticed that either someone messed with the retard cam on the IP, or it maybe wasn't tightened well enough when rebuilt and slipped. In any case I've been wondering since it slipped in such direction that there was no retard to the timing curve for the first 1/4 throttle or so. I had the IP on another truck before I figured it out, drove it around the block, and it smoked black under a small amount of throttle.

For me the subject comes up because I like to run a 2 stroke outboard on my say 19ft ocean fishing boat. What I have now is a 115hp. They did make an "Ocean" version of the 115 and 150 that have a larger diameter prop and higher reduction gear lower unit, which is great for powering over swells coming in over outgoing tide and such, but it concerned me to put even more load in the midrange or an engine that has no correction to timing for load.

I grew up around the ports of the North Oregon Coast, and the Commercial fishing vessels with diesels went and went and went as long as they were ran all the time. That's one thing about the hot exhaust, the cold exhaust usually means you have a plenum between the exhaust valve and nice salty water to condense in your engine.:eek:
 

CaptTom

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I like the power of the c32's. I do not like that the techs are ignorant about them. I do not like the 4,000 orings you need to do anything.
I especially did not like loosing two camshafts at 5,000hours, that scared me.... why the heck would an overhead roller cam go bad in 6months of usage?

A roller cam???!!???

Sheeesh! The only time that should go bad is if there was water intrusion rusting out the roller portion, otherwise, what's there to burn??

Oil starvation, although unlikely unless the builder left a rag in the sump or pump blew. I can't imagine it being high pressure oiled like high pressure in the 6.0l injection triggers... only 40-70psi max. as usual.

Less friction and why they're used!

Hey Plywood, thanks for the IP lesson on these things. Didn't know how advance was done on these things. Great explanation too.

I hate roofing, only done my own stuff, but I hate it with a passion. I'd rather be freezing my ***** off at 75', total darkness with 200lbs of air!
 

oldmisterbill

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Well this has turned into an interesting thread. I have learned a bit about several members ,resparked an old passion I had for years,that my health & finances have put a cease fire on. Also i have picked up tidbits from others much more experienced than myself. I wanted for years to become a full time lobsterman - life has a way of changing directions for us.
I hope the thread starter "smogie" follows this post and sends pictures and also keeps us informed of his boats progress.
A few of you that I respected the knowledge of proved that they deserv my respect.
Thanks all of you for making life interesting for all of us on this site.
 

Spencyg

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Interesting thread. I'm about to begin building a 6.9L which will be installed in a small 25' deep V sportfishing boat. I started down the road with a 6.5L GM (professionally converted by a company called Peninsular) but I just couldn't bring myself to dumping any effort into a large hunk of crap, so I have taken what I could from the "Pen" and junked the rest. I would imagine the OP doesn't really know what he has for a prop, what he has for a gear, or really anything else. Sounds like he bought the boat from somebody and is just running it until it blows up. From the sounds of it (and the fact that the OP has apparently disappeared), that might have already happened!

Mercruiser in conjunction with Star Power (a project run by Navistar) put out a marine 7.3L IDI back in the early 90's. There are very few of them around, but I have done some research and found the basic differences between the regular 7.3T and the Star Power.

The 7.3L marine variant ran a slightly different camshaft, and ran stainless steel exhaust valves. The marine variant also ran water cooled exhaust manifolds (cooled by antifreeze, not seawater) and a water cooled turbo. The IP was the same as the turbo 7.3 IP, and the injectors were are hair bigger. They did run the big pin rods and pistons. I haven't seen any evidence that the marine versions used a lower compression piston. I think the bellhousing kept the starter mounted higher, and bolted so it faced away from the end of the bellhousing instead of pointing towards the front of the engine.

That is pretty much it. My 6.9L build is based on a '87 motor with the good rockers. I
-KB lower compression pistons and then machine a pocket in the centers to lower my compression to 19:1.
-The lower end is going to get balanced.
-I'll be running a flywheel with a flex coupling to the Hurst transmission.
-Hypermax wrist pins
-Hypermax Inconel exhaust valves
-Hypermax hardened exhaust valve seats
-ARP head studs
-Fabricated wet exhaust manifolds to the water cooled turbo
-Moost pump
-Moost injectors
-Seawater oil coolers
-Fabricated aluminum high capacity oil pan

I'm not going to be actually pushing for a lot of HP here...not looking for more than 250hp at the flywheel, and most of the time I'll probably be cruising at around 100hp continuous. The stock guts of the 6.9L all being forged and of high quality make this engine an excellent option for a mild marine engine.

I'll be doing all the fabrication of the custom items my self. I'm going to be taking pictures as I go and will be sure to post.

I figured since this thread was hijacked like 6 pages ago that I'd just add to the confusion.
 

Spencyg

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Whoops. Fixed it. I'm from the Northeast...waiting for it to get cold up here again.
 

FordGuy100

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Interesting thread. I'm about to begin building a 6.9L which will be installed in a small 25' deep V sportfishing boat. I started down the road with a 6.5L GM (professionally converted by a company called Peninsular) but I just couldn't bring myself to dumping any effort into a large hunk of crap, so I have taken what I could from the "Pen" and junked the rest. I would imagine the OP doesn't really know what he has for a prop, what he has for a gear, or really anything else. Sounds like he bought the boat from somebody and is just running it until it blows up. From the sounds of it (and the fact that the OP has apparently disappeared), that might have already happened!

Mercruiser in conjunction with Star Power (a project run by Navistar) put out a marine 7.3L IDI back in the early 90's. There are very few of them around, but I have done some research and found the basic differences between the regular 7.3T and the Star Power.

The 7.3L marine variant ran a slightly different camshaft, and ran stainless steel exhaust valves. The marine variant also ran water cooled exhaust manifolds (cooled by antifreeze, not seawater) and a water cooled turbo. The IP was the same as the turbo 7.3 IP, and the injectors were are hair bigger. They did run the big pin rods and pistons. I haven't seen any evidence that the marine versions used a lower compression piston. I think the bellhousing kept the starter mounted higher, and bolted so it faced away from the end of the bellhousing instead of pointing towards the front of the engine.

That is pretty much it. My 6.9L build is based on a '87 motor with the good rockers. I
-KB lower compression pistons and then machine a pocket in the centers to lower my compression to 19:1.
-The lower end is going to get balanced.
-I'll be running a flywheel with a flex coupling to the Hurst transmission.
-Hypermax wrist pins
-Hypermax Inconel exhaust valves
-Hypermax hardened exhaust valve seats
-ARP head studs
-Fabricated wet exhaust manifolds to the water cooled turbo
-Moost pump
-Moost injectors
-Seawater oil coolers
-Fabricated aluminum high capacity oil pan

I'm not going to be actually pushing for a lot of HP here...not looking for more than 250hp at the flywheel, and most of the time I'll probably be cruising at around 100hp continuous. The stock guts of the 6.9L all being forged and of high quality make this engine an excellent option for a mild marine engine.

I'll be doing all the fabrication of the custom items my self. I'm going to be taking pictures as I go and will be sure to post.

I figured since this thread was hijacked like 6 pages ago that I'd just add to the confusion.


Excellent build with real world realistic hp numbers ;Sweet
 

CaptTom

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Interesting thread. I'm about to begin building a 6.9L which will be installed in a small 25' deep V sportfishing boat. I started down the road with a 6.5L GM (professionally converted by a company called Peninsular) but I just couldn't bring myself to dumping any effort into a large hunk of crap, so I have taken what I could from the "Pen" and junked the rest. I would imagine the OP doesn't really know what he has for a prop, what he has for a gear, or really anything else. Sounds like he bought the boat from somebody and is just running it until it blows up. From the sounds of it (and the fact that the OP has apparently disappeared), that might have already happened!

Mercruiser in conjunction with Star Power (a project run by Navistar) put out a marine 7.3L IDI back in the early 90's. There are very few of them around, but I have done some research and found the basic differences between the regular 7.3T and the Star Power.

The 7.3L marine variant ran a slightly different camshaft, and ran stainless steel exhaust valves. The marine variant also ran water cooled exhaust manifolds (cooled by antifreeze, not seawater) and a water cooled turbo. The IP was the same as the turbo 7.3 IP, and the injectors were are hair bigger. They did run the big pin rods and pistons. I haven't seen any evidence that the marine versions used a lower compression piston. I think the bellhousing kept the starter mounted higher, and bolted so it faced away from the end of the bellhousing instead of pointing towards the front of the engine.

That is pretty much it. My 6.9L build is based on a '87 motor with the good rockers. I
-KB lower compression pistons and then machine a pocket in the centers to lower my compression to 19:1.
-The lower end is going to get balanced.
-I'll be running a flywheel with a flex coupling to the Hurst transmission.
-Hypermax wrist pins
-Hypermax Inconel exhaust valves
-Hypermax hardened exhaust valve seats
-ARP head studs
-Fabricated wet exhaust manifolds to the water cooled turbo
-Moost pump
-Moost injectors
-Seawater oil coolers
-Fabricated aluminum high capacity oil pan

I'm not going to be actually pushing for a lot of HP here...not looking for more than 250hp at the flywheel, and most of the time I'll probably be cruising at around 100hp continuous. The stock guts of the 6.9L all being forged and of high quality make this engine an excellent option for a mild marine engine.

I'll be doing all the fabrication of the custom items my self. I'm going to be taking pictures as I go and will be sure to post.

I figured since this thread was hijacked like 6 pages ago that I'd just add to the confusion.

Nice research on the 7.3.

The one thing you will notice, the 6.9 will be a ton of weight in a 25' boat. 25'ers normally run a single Chevie 350 in them with an out drive set up. They'll easily do 30-40 knots, depending on vessel configuration... cabin, fly bridge, center console etc. and drive type... shaft v. O/D.

I don't think you'll see the same speeds, plus the weight of the 6.9 has much more iron.... however, as you're suggesting, driving at lower rpm's and not trying to make her fly, you'll probably sip fuel.

Just know you won't go anywhere in a hurry.

The few boats I've seen with the marinized 7.3's complained about lack of speed, never lack of power or reliability.


Lastly, if you haven't found them yet, make sure when you put n your exhaust system, the front half is freshwater cooled too.

If you can't find them, there a place called "Cascade Exhaust" in Texas or Washington State that makes these systems for some of the off the wall stuff the production makers do not do. There should be a block off gasket and a riser/sprayer section that is fed by salt water. This is the end of the marine exhaust at the engine.... then obviously heat rated piedro to the discharge.... unless you can dry stack it... much more reliable and less long term costs.... just louder, even with a muffler.

It'll be fun to see your project boat.... pics in new thread... just for your build maybe?! :thumbsup:
 

gatorman21218

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Now dont get me wrong, the 6.9/7.3 are a great engine. But come on now, what other engine can give you 450 horsepower while only displacing 7 liters? (671TI marine)
 

CaptTom

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Now dont get me wrong, the 6.9/7.3 are a great engine. But come on now, what other engine can give you 450 horsepower while only displacing 7 liters? (671TI marine)

Thaaaaaaaaaaaaaatz whaddI'mtawkinabowt!

Of course, there ain't nuttin like a JT 8-92TA... you waana torque sumpthin up.... nooooow weeee're tawkin!

Of course we can go to 16-92/149's... but the boat would ride in the gallies, not the engine aft the galley! :rotflmao
 

plywood

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Mercruiser in conjunction with Star Power (a project run by Navistar) put out a marine 7.3L IDI back in the early 90's. There are very few of them around, but I have done some research and found the basic differences between the regular 7.3T and the Star Power.

The 7.3L marine variant ran a slightly different camshaft, and ran stainless steel exhaust valves. The marine variant also ran water cooled exhaust manifolds (cooled by antifreeze, not seawater) and a water cooled turbo. The IP was the same as the turbo 7.3 IP, and the injectors were are hair bigger. They did run the big pin rods and pistons. I haven't seen any evidence that the marine versions used a lower compression piston. I think the bellhousing kept the starter mounted higher, and bolted so it faced away from the end of the bellhousing instead of pointing towards the front of the engine.

So it seems interesting to me what the turbo was and the camshaft was:sly

Boat engines are built like race car engines in gassers, with larger tolerances for bearings and pistons to allow for more load and heat build up. I'm curious what rpm the camshaft was designed to gain power. Since it was in an I/O configuration, most likely it would be for higher rpm. Sterndrives have gears in the lower unit, which is in the water, therefore they are not conducive to higher reduction ratios which require larger "gearboxes" and cause drag. Not going to give high load at midrange.

In looking at turbos, I've wondered if there was a water cooled possibility. Finding out the application for the water cooled turbo that was on these 7.3l turbo marine engines would be super cool.;Sweet
 

DeepRoots

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since we are talking about detroits....
my old boat with the old powerplants:
2, 16v149 NA Detroits.

You must be registered for see images attach
 

trackspeeder

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since we are talking about detroits....
my old boat with the old powerplants:
2, 16v149 NA Detroits.

You must be registered for see images attach

You forgot to remind every body they need to turn the volume up all the way.
The only way to get the full effect of a Detroit.:rotflmao:thumbsup:
 

DeepRoots

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4768 cubic inches of 2stroke madness turning 2100rpms (They are only supposed to turn 1800, but I'm special, ok? Don't tell my boss)
 
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