hey yall gotta 6.9 in my boat

CaptTom

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capt tom-
where are you based out of? looks like you have a salvaging operation by the description of your equipment;Sweet most of my cousins are older than me on my dad's side of the family, so we got to do some interesting adventures growing up. my best memories was when the cousins were into houseboating on the Sac/San Joaquin delta system and we had skiboats tied up to the houseboat. one year we managed to stay out on the water for two months. we docked for fuel and food and sit-down meal every now and then. I think the older cousins knew it was going to be the last run, the following year, many had to go take on real jobs and make a living. we're down to one cousin who still boats like it was the last thing he will do on this earth. he's got a boat collection like my gun collectioncookoo fortunately, he had income to support the habit and a wife who is into boating as much as he is.

gotta question....
I'm looking at a Vista 258 cabin cruiser with twin 454's and two twin-prop outdrives. the outdrives need overhauling due to galvanic corrosion and they look expensive. is it possible to put in a single prop outdrive or should I continue searching?

Yeeeup, I do salvage, towing, some HAZMAT and repair in San Dawg. I'm an independent, not affiliated with any brand names. I actually own four boats, two are down with the economy. I've had up to six at once.... boat rich and cash poor!! DOH! I hate that part!

Here's one thing to remember about most boats, it isn't the brand name so much as it is the maintenance. Oh sure, there are some hulls that just makes one wonder... WTH were you thinking when you designed, then had the gall to build it?? If the hull and style looks similar to another brand or there's a lot of them around, pretty much ok on the hull....barring damage etc.

Boats are powered pretty much the same throughout the brand names. There are basically two out drive builders these days, Mercruiser and Volvo. Anything else.... run like Hades!! It's CR@P!... PERIOD!! Except for Konrad, a bullet proof Mercruiser...not affiliated, just compared, basically a very expensive, yet worth it commercial drive.

The engines are all pretty reliable, not a whole lot different than anything you'd recognize automotive, just make sure the Carb, Dist, Starter and Alt are all marinized on gassers.... or you will not have the beautiful face any more.... I know, a bit extreme commentary, but I'm adamant about that... remember, I'm a salvor and have seen both vessel and human damage from CR@P installs! Usually owner DIY stuff who doesn't know why those systems are over built.

If the drives are Swiss cheese as described, move on. They will end up costing about $7500 each to replace with "rebuilt" units. Remember my comments above... I'm not a fan of Mercruisers? Well, unless you're on top of the in-water maintenance.... they turn to Swiss cheese before your eyes. A Volvo or Konrad will do the same, but the Mercs are very unforgiving. I put the drives in the same category as the Ford 6.0's.... when they work, they run great... just a bunch problems if you don't take "extra" care of them.

See if the engines have fresh water cooling systems with radiator fluid in them. This is a good thing. If not, you must "know", not just ask, but know, if it's been in saltwater. If there's a salt water history, no matter what, the engines will not survive 10 years at best.

Lastly, if the vessel was fueled within the last six months or more, the fuel will be CR@P! Very expensive to dispose of and useless to fix. In other words... get rid of the gas... let someone else wreck their carbs, pumps injectors etc....... don't do it!!! Seriously.... when boating... you don't walk home and towing is over $200.00/hour with the average tow bill around $600.00. Forget the Coast Guard freebie, unless you didn't adhere to my specialties equipment list... only then is it a free ride, but it's the free ride no one wants.

Doing a dual to single conversion is no problem and will work. I'm actually surprised that there are two 454's in a 25/26' boat. There are plenty of single 454's running around in 28' boats. The big deal will be, plugging up both transom bracket holes(where O/D's used to be) and cut out a new hole for the single engine. Then there's the stringer fiber glassing that may be required, and other stuff. If going to a single, salvaging parts between the two out drives may cut the costs waaaaay down for you too.

Here's a little known statistic: a boat with two engines is down 66% of the time, compared to a boat with a single engine being down only 20% of the time.

Most people would think the single would be down 33% or closer to that percentage. It's why all my boats are singles. All my doubles/twins cost me far more to maintain, although they are way kewler to maneuver. Kinda like having two girl friends at once... tough to keep up with the maintenance, but waaaay more fun to maneuver if you can afford it. :D

There's plenty more, but, this lengthy synopsis is actually a nutshell explanation.

In the case of boats, pay a well known, reputable mechanic, preferably with a shop that has a lit up sign to do an inspection. The hundred bucks spent may save tens of thousands later in some cases.... in the case of two out drives, we're already at $15,000... that's to start. :eek:
 

towcat

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i can see this is going to add up fast.....:mad:
boat is a 2006 model and it's currently owned by my boat mechanic. He bought it from his neighbor who was going BK. he's offering it to me at $15k. the boat usually spends summers up on the delta and winters on a trailer. so it does spend all summer in the water. i do like the idea of two powerplants though. I've had a Force 250 outboard seize up it's gearcase as I was going under the Rio Vista bridge and if it wasn't for my 7hp "oshit" pony motor, we would have been in some real trouble. even then we were fighting a 3 knot current going out and the net speed was a gain of 2 knots until the current slacked off and was coming back in.:eek:
 

sandrow

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(1984 40' X-Navy utility boat, 671 N/A, 244 HP all torque, max. speed 10 knots, goes to sea almost daily, used for towing and salvage... ain't afraid to drive her in a sheet storm. Cost to rebuild engine and tranny MOH $5k)


Boy, would I love to have her!!! I was looking for an ex-NAVY boat when I bought my 20 chris craft. I have a single screw mercruiser with a 305. little to no hrs on her , excellent maintenance record and trailer Boat has a small bow cabin in beautiful shape paid 1k for her..... couldn't turn it down. When I was a kid my old man had a ex PT boat he got shortly after WWII and converted into a pleasure boat. Wish I had inherited it but he sold it and put a down on our ranch in Or. back in the late 60s. LOVE THE NOSTALGIA of those old boats. Who used to skipper em? what did they do with em and so on. Still have a WWII sniper rifle 03A4 Love it to for the same reasons..... and it still prints a 1/4 inch groups with the right load.!!
 

CaptTom

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i can see this is going to add up fast.....:mad:
boat is a 2006 model and it's currently owned by my boat mechanic. He bought it from his neighbor who was going BK. he's offering it to me at $15k. the boat usually spends summers up on the delta and winters on a trailer. so it does spend all summer in the water. i do like the idea of two powerplants though. I've had a Force 250 outboard seize up it's gearcase as I was going under the Rio Vista bridge and if it wasn't for my 7hp "oshit" pony motor, we would have been in some real trouble. even then we were fighting a 3 knot current going out and the net speed was a gain of 2 knots until the current slacked off and was coming back in.:eek:

With that newer description, I'm curious as to why the excess corrosion on the drives???

The Delta is fresh(depending on far up river you go on the Sac), salt and brackish water, with stow aways in the off season. Those drives may only have mild corrosion. Sometimes things look worse than usual, especially on only a 5 year old boat with minimal salt water contact.

I'd like to see an up close photo of both drives at their worst point/areas if you have the time.

Something isn't adding up. Are we sure it's pitted and not just coated with fresh water ****... a lot of times it's just white in color from all the calcium from our hard Klownifornia water? If you have some vinegar or mild acid, you might be able to remove this scale. I wouldn't use anything industrial, but just enough acid to melt away the calcium, followed by a good soapy wash. I won't suggest the acids we use, don't wanna risk either potential health dilemma's nor damage to someone else's stuff.

Two engines is better in the situation you're referring to, however, remember, two is more expensive cost wise to operate and repair. There isn't much advantage beyond that. There's almost nothing a twin can do that a single can't do, except walk a boat sideways...I can do it with jets too... I know, braggin' a little.

BTW- the Delta is an awesome place for boating. I've transited both directions into/from SF bay to Sacramento. One time, we had four 26' Whalers that we took up a highly reeded out area with a 15' wide channel in it. We were doing 30 knots through this thing. All backsides were puckered as we carved through the twisted channel. One boat lost control in the lead boats wake, I was third boat, nearly broadsided the second boat as it plunged into the reeds!!! LOL Thankfully, the reeds acted like a huge mattress.... guess which boat bought everyone beers that night?? I have a friend named Reed now too.... it changed that day.
 

CaptTom

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(1984 40' X-Navy utility boat, 671 N/A, 244 HP all torque, max. speed 10 knots, goes to sea almost daily, used for towing and salvage... ain't afraid to drive her in a sheet storm. Cost to rebuild engine and tranny MOH $5k)


Boy, would I love to have her!!! I was looking for an ex-NAVY boat when I bought my 20 chris craft. I have a single screw mercruiser with a 305. little to no hrs on her , excellent maintenance record and trailer Boat has a small bow cabin in beautiful shape paid 1k for her..... couldn't turn it down. When I was a kid my old man had a ex PT boat he got shortly after WWII and converted into a pleasure boat. Wish I had inherited it but he sold it and put a down on our ranch in Or. back in the late 60s. LOVE THE NOSTALGIA of those old boats. Who used to skipper em? what did they do with em and so on. Still have a WWII sniper rifle 03A4 Love it to for the same reasons..... and it still prints a 1/4 inch groups with the right load.!!

LOLOL!!!

Everything's for sale dincha know!? :D

Chris Craft is an awesome boat. I really like the name too, has a special appeal for me. Maybe because of its history.

My great uncle had a tug company and bought a PT as a yacht. He lived in Washington, moored it right outside his house. I was just a kid at the time, but boy, I can see it like it was yesterday. Of course the famous PT is PT-109 skippered by Kennedy.

Those boats... heck! Boats!!!??!?! They were 80' long and had three engines in 'em. Anyway, they are the first "boats" the Navy used as fighters. We always remember the PBR made by Uniflite and powered with 6V53 Detroits and Jacuzzi jets, built for and used in Vietnam up the rivers. That boat was conceptualized, built and delivered in 30 days. The owner of Uniflite died a few days before delivery. He never got to see his work in use and how afraid the enemy of the time was of it. Of course, quite a few of em got shot up and sank.... what wouldn't fighting in the open with zero cover? But it had twin 50's up front, a 60 on either side of the engine hatches and a couple of 40 mounts in the back... or 50's if so chosen. The boat from H3ll if you were fighting it.

Here's a really kewl site: http://www.warboats.org/

I'm pretty intimate with those boats, although way too young to be on the ones we talked about. :angel:
 

sandrow

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LOLOL!!!

Everything's for sale dincha know!? :D

Chris Craft is an awesome boat. I really like the name too, has a special appeal for me. Maybe because of its history.

My great uncle had a tug company and bought a PT as a yacht. He lived in Washington, moored it right outside his house. I was just a kid at the time, but boy, I can see it like it was yesterday. Of course the famous PT is PT-109 skippered by Kennedy.

Those boats... heck! Boats!!!??!?! They were 80' long and had three engines in 'em. Anyway, they are the first "boats" the Navy used as fighters. We always remember the PBR made by Uniflite and powered with 6V53 Detroits and Jacuzzi jets, built for and used in Vietnam up the rivers. That boat was conceptualized, built and delivered in 30 days. The owner of Uniflite died a few days before delivery. He never got to see his work in use and how afraid the enemy of the time was of it. Of course, quite a few of em got shot up and sank.... what wouldn't fighting in the open with zero cover? But it had twin 50's up front, a 60 on either side of the engine hatches and a couple of 40 mounts in the back... or 50's if so chosen. The boat from H3ll if you were fighting it.

Here's a really kewl site: http://www.warboats.org/

I'm pretty intimate with those boats, although way too young to be on the ones we talked about. :angel:

I really appreciate that site thanks a million every since I was a kid and even more after I did a tour in the Navy I have been nuts for battle history of the small boats to the mighty Mo.
 

oldmisterbill

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My last boat was a Hyliner,wiyh a Ray Hunt designed Hull. Loved rough water - quick not but not super fast with good manuverability.
 

CaptTom

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Electrolysis may have eaten those drives if the zincs were gone.

Of course, however, because of the less saline water the vessel is in, the newer age of the vessel, and only semi-annual submersion, those drives could have been un-zinced from the factory(unlikely) and not caused a lot of damage.

The burn rate for an average zinc in So.Cal is anywhere from 3-6 months for replacement... unless they tied up to a hot dock. A hot dock is one that has electrical wires soaking in water, where the water provides ground, not the grounding circuit.

Again... sumpthin up in the assessment of the drives or something unusual with the environment or a bonding wire not correctly connected or the 115V circuit is bad/not isolated properly or or or.

I'd still like to see the drives. It doesn't seem so simple as a zinc issue for the age of the vessel.

sandrow,

I know one of the administrators on that site. He and I served a time together. He was one who survived the Riverine war, in spite of becoming a swimmer twice in combat. A real hero he is.... no Kerry Bronzes either and the rice in his ***** didn't earn him a Purple Heart, only the shrapnel embedded from RPG's and flying fiberglass got him his.... no early return home either.

BTW- I'm the good looking one on the site. :D :rotflmao cookoo
 
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CaptTom

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My last boat was a Hyliner,wiyh a Ray Hunt designed Hull. Loved rough water - quick not but not super fast with good manuverability.

The Mahogany rigs???

WOW!

Those are beautiful. Did you have the Evinrude on it? Or the Black Max? The tall thin Mercruiser?
 

towcat

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LOLOL!!!

Everything's for sale dincha know!? :D

Chris Craft is an awesome boat. I really like the name too, has a special appeal for me. Maybe because of its history.

My great uncle had a tug company and bought a PT as a yacht. He lived in Washington, moored it right outside his house. I was just a kid at the time, but boy, I can see it like it was yesterday. Of course the famous PT is PT-109 skippered by Kennedy.

Those boats... heck! Boats!!!??!?! They were 80' long and had three engines in 'em. Anyway, they are the first "boats" the Navy used as fighters. We always remember the PBR made by Uniflite and powered with 6V53 Detroits and Jacuzzi jets, built for and used in Vietnam up the rivers. That boat was conceptualized, built and delivered in 30 days. The owner of Uniflite died a few days before delivery. He never got to see his work in use and how afraid the enemy of the time was of it. Of course, quite a few of em got shot up and sank.... what wouldn't fighting in the open with zero cover? But it had twin 50's up front, a 60 on either side of the engine hatches and a couple of 40 mounts in the back... or 50's if so chosen. The boat from H3ll if you were fighting it.

Here's a really kewl site: http://www.warboats.org/

I'm pretty intimate with those boats, although way too young to be on the ones we talked about. :angel:
thanks for the linky to the warboats site. i'm a ****** for war stories;Sweet
"WHEN WE GOT HIT, I OPENED UP WITH THE MINIGUN. I GOT OFF TWO OR THREE BURSTS AND IT JAMMED. I GRABBED A LAW (M72 light anti-tank weapon) AND IT MISFIRED. I GRABBED MY M16 AND WENT THROUGH TWO MAGAZINES BEFORE IT JAMMED. I COULDN'T CLEAR IT. I WAS SO FRUSTRATED THE ONLY THING I COULD THINK TO DO WAS POINT MY FINGER AND YELL: 'BANG! BANG! TAKE THAT YOU SON-OF-A-B***H!' AND I THREW THE EMPTY MAGAZINES AT THE BEACH!"
that recount was better than any of Rampy's zomble stores;Sweet


back to why the the vista 258 was eaten up so bad. from what' i'm told, the berthing for the summer was a hot dock thanks to all the dummies who lived on the dock. the boat was in the water tied up to the berth for roughly six months at a time and then was pulled out and towed home for the winter. the operational hours are pretty low, roughly 125 hours.
 

CaptTom

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thanks for the linky to the warboats site. i'm a ****** for war stories;Sweet

that recount was better than any of Rampy's zomble stores;Sweet


back to why the the vista 258 was eaten up so bad. from what' i'm told, the berthing for the summer was a hot dock thanks to all the dummies who lived on the dock. the boat was in the water tied up to the berth for roughly six months at a time and then was pulled out and towed home for the winter. the operational hours are pretty low, roughly 125 hours.

SEEEEEE?!?!?!

A hot dock!

I knew there was something other than just a few zincs not changed out on time.

The hot dock syndrome isn't only because of another mis-repaired boater. A lot of old marina docks are to blame. Even when a boat has a bad grounding system, and it's plugged into a properly wired marine....main ground is ashore and pounded into the dirt properly, the bad boats wiring will go to shore ground 90% of the time.

The other 10% leaks out of the bad boats metals, and it's just a short time later it will sink. 115V's is really bad for boats with bad grounding and bonding systems. The bonding system is the only place that 12/24/32V systems meet with 115/230V.

When the 115V ground is bad, it leaks into the DC circuit through the negative and cooks all metals touching water....water is the ultimate ground and why we don't go boating during lightning strikes.

A boat recently came to the yard that had a newb mechanic install a starter incorrectly. The hot battery lead was connected to ground. The boat was a 48' sail boat. The stainless steel rudder post, stainless steel drive shaft and all bronze through hulls were corroded to such a state in three days, they flaked apart by hand.

Interesting thing about stainless, the corrosion damage doesn't appear as holes... like Swiss cheeze, it corrodes linearly. There were nothing but square troughs up-n-down the lengths of shaft and rudder post. All the bronze corroded more like Swiss cheeze...aluminum will do the same because it eats the magnesium(out drive) and zinc(bronze) out of the metals.

As far as your boat considerations, the engines may be electrolytically toast too!

The cooling water is fed through the out drives, up to the engine. Since salt water is the ultimate conductor, if the engine is cooled solely by the water it picks up from outside the hull v. a combination of out side water and a regular cooling system with coolant.... the electrolysis may have traveled as far as the exhaust discharge, damaging every bit of cast steel it came in contact with. The good thing about the out drives taking the hit is, it acted like a zinc and more than likely took the corrosion hit so the engine didn't have to. Cast steel is more noble than both aluminum and magnesium, as is the copper inside the heat exchanger.... if there's a coolant style cooling system.

No matter the hours... I'd pass on the boat... unless it was selling for $1000.00, with trailer. I know, I know.... they ain't gunna do it. I wouldn't sell for that either, but if I was a buyer, better to walk away for the price indicated. Nobody's going to pull the heads to inspect cooling passages either, but it would be smart to see if it was damaged.

If we think back about our 6.9/7.3l (all)diesels, we have a problem in our cooling systems if we don't use SCA's. I know it's due to cavitation, but the end result of leaking through cylinder walls can occur with internal cooling passage electrolysis when cooled by raw water(the stuff outside the boat). End result is the same.

Save your duckets for something better is my instinctual advice. The boat sounds great, probably worth $50-60k new, but, if you think a brand new car drops in value when driven off the lot... there is no such thing as an investment when it comes to boats.....ever.
 

oldmisterbill

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The Mahogany rigs???

WOW!

Those are beautiful. Did you have the Evinrude on it? Or the Black Max? The tall thin Mercruiser?

I had the hand laid glass with a modified deep v - after the 22ft ocean racer he designed- (yes 22 ft-65 MPH in choppy water in a 22ft boat) Hyliner bought the molds and added 2 disigns to the same hull. 1. A cuddy cabin the Gypsy 2. A sportfisherman walkaround & an open runabout. I had the cabin,I loved the agility (full throttle reverse turns with no skipping and no prop leaving the water). It had an OMC with a 305 I repowered it with a 350,put a stainess homemade pot hauler on it and loaded it with pole holders for trolling , made a live well for keeping the lobster powered by a pump when sitting,and a pitot tube when running. I used it in late into november for cod & haddock 35-40 miles out,its rough there in the late fall. It was awsome in rough water.

I had an old Navy friend that had a whaler. The day after a hurricane we went out trying to salvage our traps,he gave up went back in -when I came in with my traps & gear he mentioned how nice it looked (ride wise) in the water,they were scattered from 1 sq mile to roughly 25 sq miles and we came in with all our traps. Long rough day!

By the way, Ray Hunt http://www.crhunt.com/rayhunt.htm designed the Bertrum hulls of the 80s & the hyliner was dubbed the Baby Bertrum in our area. Boy it hurt to see her go down the road to her new owner. :(
 
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CaptTom

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I had the hand laid glass with a modified deep v - after the 22ft ocean racer he designed- (yes 22 ft-65 MPH in choppy water in a 22ft boat) Hyliner bought the molds and added 2 disigns to the same hull. 1. A cuddy cabin the Gypsy 2. A sportfisherman walkaround & an open runabout. I had the cabin,I loved the agility (full throttle reverse turns with no skipping and no prop leaving the water). It had an OMC with a 305 I repowered it with a 350,put a stainess homemade pot hauler on it and loaded it with pole holders for trolling , made a live well for keeping the lobster powered by a pump when sitting,and a pitot tube when running. I used it in late into november for cod & haddock 35-40 miles out,its rough there in the late fall. It was awsome in rough water.

I had an old Navy friend that had a whaler. The day after a hurricane we went out trying to salvage our traps,he gave up went back in -when I came in with my traps & gear he mentioned how nice it looked (ride wise) in the water,they were scattered from 1 sq mile to roughly 25 sq miles and we came in with all our traps. Long rough day!

By the way, Ray Hunt http://www.crhunt.com/rayhunt.htm designed the Bertrum hulls of the 80s & the hyliner was dubbed the Baby Bertrum in our area. Boy it hurt to see her go down the road to her new owner. :(

Nothing better than a deep-v in any kind of weather...cuts like butter.

Sounds like it was a great boat. My Sea Ray, although not really a true deep-v, modified -v, has a nice V at the bow for cutting through the chop...but... once the boat starts to fly, the transom is a bit flat and makes for a pounding ride. Since the transom usually hits first when flying the hulls, it hits pretty hard. If you look at offshore racers, they're deep V'd like your old boat was, all the way to the transom. Even then, because of their speeds, on the bottom, from the transom to just forward about 2', the bottoms get soft from all the aggressive pounding. It's like hitting the bottom with 2lb sledges for hours at a time...just not as concentrated.

It's nice to trust your boat isn't it??

We can get away with all kinds of junk on terra firma, but when it comes to boats, there's nothing better than a good engine and drive train attached to a great hull.

Thanks for sharing that OMB!
 
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