Bought the 86 f350, swap begins

[Pipeliner_86]

Measure the spring perches from both axles, and compare. You can make anything work with a little fab skills and some imagination.
There was a dana 44hp under my truck when I bought it. That axle was narrower in the spring perches than the dana 60 I put in its place. I had to fab up new shackle mounts and other stuff. All it takes is some good measurments and a welder. If your not sure about the measurements, I'll take a look at my 92 Ram 250 tomarrow. It has a d60 under it, and I'll compare to my 86 f350.

 

[87F250]

will the dodge front and rear axles bolt up in my f350 though?

Why don't you go take some measurements and see for yourself? But to me, this idea of swapping in the Dodge axle(s) is just added work, exspense. and complication to the intended goal.

Do you really want to put that Cummins in that truck? What is your plan? And is your plan practical? From reading this thread I gather that cost is an important factor to you so I don't understand why you would even consider using the 6.0 or 24v setups. Eliminate the unecessary and overly exspensive and it will make the process a little easier. Use the 12v and keep the rest of the drive line as Ford as possible. Having an overdrive is highly desirable, so for your trans/transfer case, find an e4od/bw 1356 combo and use an adapter. There were million of these made so finding a good usable combo should'nt be too difficult or expensive. You will need a stand alone computer for the e4od to work properly. As others here have said, Just keep you power levels stock until you can afford to build up your trans to handle added horsepower. If you are towing a lot, add in more tranny cooling capacity.

A clean, simple engine swap should be the number one goal. Not horsepower. That can come later.

 

[bigblu78]

If you are going to spend all of this time and money in swapping engines, trans and transfer cases then why don't you do yourself a favor and do it right the first time. Diesel is ungodly priced and you want to put a 3 sp auto in? I can tell you from experiance that an E4OD will bolt up to a 12V cummins and hold up very well if built right. As far as transfer cases go, look at Richard Maddens F-350 with his twin turbo 1000+ horse Cummins backed by a ATS built E40D and he ran (or still is running) the factory t-case with no mods. It won't take long to eat up your cash just in fuel if you go with a 3 sp auto. I personally went the E40D route and since have swapped to a 5 sp just for preferance. I am pulling and towing a lot more and the 5 sp suited me better. Its up to you but my $0.02 is to stay away from anything less than an OD tranny or a manual. GV are nice but pricey and a pain IMO.

 

[res0wc18]

i dont want to put the dodge axles in at all. I think that everyhting dodge will add up pretty damn quick. The most logical answer i think is the cummins with the dodge tranny behind it with a 241 case giving me drivers side drop then just making the driveshaft mods. But then again making the speedo work is a pain because of the 241's electric unit and slip yoke. But darrin tosh has a cummins/c6 setup going and it poses some interesting questions.


here is the message:

Here are some pics. The thin torque converter is the one that came out of the cummins conversion truck with the C6. the fatter TC is a stock C6 diesel torque converter.

The pic of the rear of the motor and flywheel shows the metal spacer that the TC was bolted to. I dont know anything about the TC that came out of the doner truck, or why it was used. It seems theat if you were able to use a stock TC you can remove the spacer and that is the difference in the spacing.

I spoke with another guy a while back who did a cummins conversion in a Bronco with a C6 and he didn't have any spacer, it was just bolted to the flywheel.

So what I am getting at is that I want to install a towing rv TC that kicks in at a lower RPM than stock to better utilize the low torque of the Cummins. I just don't know what to buy, and if I can bolt it directly to the flywheel and loose the spacer.

 

[res0wc18]

anyone have the links about a zf 5 speed swap from an auto, as i guess thats an option as well.

 

[bigblu78]

If you are going to go with a 5 speed you will want to use and NV4500. It will right up to your engine.

I will give you a little piece of advice with your swap. If you do a Cummins swap right the first time you will have one hell of a truck for a long time. Yet, with that said there is nothing "Cheap" about it. You need to decide for yourself what you want your truck to do. You also need to come up with a "realistic" budget. It sounds like you are wanting to do this swap as cheap as possible which is what everyone wants but I will tell you first hand that there is nothing "cheap" about this swap. I'm sure many others will agree. You are building a custom drivetrain and money will add up. Like I said before, if you want a good running truck you should go with the E4OD or a 5 speed. You stated in your first post that you are sticking with an auto tranny no matter what so the E4OD should be your tranny of choice. You can buy these fairly cheap and if you find yourself a good one you will be ok with it behind the Cummins if you keep your foot out of it until you can afford a rebuild. I would recommend finding an E4OD out of a diesel truck with the factory BW t-case still attached. That t-case will easily swap into your truck with only driveshaft adjustments which will have to be done no matter what combo you use. You will need to pick up a trans computer to run the tranny which can be had fairly cheap. (I may still have mine around for that matter.) Now you will need an adapter to mate the E4OD to the cummins but if you look hard online you can find these all the time from guys who started swaps but gave up and never finished. It sounds like you have some parts that you could possibly get rid of that will greatly offset the cost of the adapter and tranny itself.

Here is another very important thing to think about if you are on a budget to start with.

(These numbers are just for arguments sake but may be close to actual)

If you get 12mpg with a 3 speed auto you will burn 8.33 gallons for every 100 miles you drive. This will cost you $28.32 every 100 miles if diesel is $3.40/gallon.

If you get 15mpg with an OD tranny or manual you will burn 6.66 gallons for every 100 miles you drive. That will cost you $22.64 every 100 miles if diesel is the same $3.40/gallon.

With that said, you will save roughly $5.68 for every 100 miles you run this rig. That is a cost difference in the end of $0.056 a mile you will save with OD or a manual. This doesn't sound like much but it will add up over time. For instance, after 20,000 miles you have save $1000 which would have paid for your adapter plate to start with.

Just some food for thought.

 

[res0wc18]

od would be very nice but nv4500 are very hard to find in my area for cheap. Where as a zf can be found all day. But then again if i have to buy an adapter maybe it would be better to just try and find a 4500? Although how much do you think i can get for the the rest of that dodge truck. Its complete with the dana 60 front and rear and 205 case and possibly the tranny(727). What do you think? I really would like to have overdrive. How hard is it to put a five speed in where one never was? I guess the other option is to sell everything i can and have a 47rh built?

 

[res0wc18]

UPDATE!!!

well all its been a while but heres the rundown.

1. Bought the 89 cummins donor 4x4 truck.
2. Blew up my 460, runs like crap.
3. sold all my other toys to pay for the swap.
4. now come the questions


need to decide. Stick or auto?

i can get a whole donor parts truck 460 zf five speed 4x4 truck for 500 bucks.

Or i could buy a 47 rh or ford AOD or some other auto and put that in. Also dimensionally are the 4x4 aod's and c6 the same size?

How do the aods shift etc? Vacuum right? What about when it goes into overdrive? How does that happen? Are they like dodge 47rh's?


Ive contacted a few builders that say their trannies will hold up to the torque of a cummins.

Or i could got with a 4r100, but then how would i control the shifting etc without having any computers at all on my 86?

I have been trying to get a hold of F350JOHN he is a member on cummins conversions and 4btswaps, with no success. He has done the same swap as i intend to do and he seemed to figure out all the loose ends going with the zf 5 speed route. ANYONE KNOW HOW TO GET AHOLD OF HIM OR OTHERS THAT HAVE DONE THIS SWAP?

anways what do you all think? Remember my 86 is a reg cab 460 4x4 c6 np 208 truck.

 

[funnyman06]

i believe the problem is you keep getting ford gasser parts, and they dont bolt up to the diesels... Tell me if im wrong guys, but from what ive heard, you should look for an 4x4 ford F whatever E40D DIESEL, and swap from that thing. from what everyone has said, build the e4od and you will be set.

 

[Diesel JD]

That might be a problem, but since its a Cummins not a Ford or IH diesel, the parts need adapters or redneck engineering to fit anyway, but with that said, its a lot more likely that diesel specific parts will hold the Cummins power to begin with and that there will be adapters to go from Ford diesel to Cummins diesel out there than from say an E4OD gasoline to Cummins Diesel. Personally I say you need the Dodge 5 speed manual or a ZF-5 with the adapter to make it work. This will get you the best fuel economy. Any pre '04 5.9 Cummins can easily get 20mpg on the highway empty with a manual. With an E4OD or Dodge auto its going to be slightly less and a C6 is going to eat up a LOT of power...it sure does behind the 6.9! You should contact Midnight Rider. He's the master of the cheap Cummins conversion, and also talk to Darrin Tosh since he just now did this.

 

[res0wc18]

yes. there is plates to go from pretty much any tranny and back and forth.

What about the autos? the electronic ones are controlled how? I know that you can get aux. computers to make them work but do they need speed sensors of the tcase etc to work?

 

[Diesel JD]

Well I know the E4OD needs some sort of computer, either out of a Ford truck/van or a Bauman aux. computer. It uses some sort of throttle position sensor and an FIPL on the injector pump to give the computer info. The 4R100 is probably very similar except it was designed with a computerized engine(7.3 PSD) in mind. Probably just has an adapter to directly communicate with the engine. The injector pump on the 5.9 is quite a different animal from the DB2, not sure how all that stuff would or wouldn't swap over. Not much help from me, hopefully someone who's worked with a lot of E4ODs will give you some help. FWIW, I just think a stock E4OD behind a Cummins is trouble. They can barely handle a stock 6.9 or 7.3, Dodge's early autos are not much better from what I hear. I suggest spending the money for a "built" E4OD, a C6 and a GV, or just go with a ZF5 or Doge getrag 5 speed.

 

[res0wc18]

yes with 200 hp and 500 ft lbs it will eat up at tranny if im not careful.


So who one the forum has done auto to zf five speed swap?

please tell me some info and give me links.

PM me also so i can ask questions

 

[res0wc18]

plans have changed

well it looks like i have found a nice complete donor 94 f250 4x4 stroker with low miles and it is a 5spd.

So it looks like im going to pick this up and sell of my first gen stuff as i just keep running into problems with the first gen.

I have questions

1. Will the 94 powerstroke fit in my 86 f350 4x4?
2. How hard is it going to be to put the motor, five speed etc in my truck? Remeber i have two complete trucks.
3. Anyone done this before?
4. What about emissions? I had to take my 86 in and it failed of course and they said after ive spent 150.00 at an emissions shop and it fails then they give me a waiver to tab and driver the rig. Well with that being said whats gonna happen when the stroker is in there? I still havent tabbed the truck yet so ill need to go back to emissions etc. Is what im doing legal? Is there a legal way to do this? I live in everett, Wa and need advice.
5. if i have a e40d out of 1995 stroker will it bolt up to my 1994 motor that has zf five speed attached to it, if not what do i need to make it work? What about the computer end of things and telling it to shift etc and make it work?


????

 

[res0wc18]

? anyone?