460 clutch vs 6.9/7.3 clutch

I stopped by the local Ford parts counter this morning to buy a new release bearing for the dually and I asked the parts guy if the 460 and 7.3 for the same year listed the same clutch kit - he said no....Now I wonder if that's because the system things the IDI has a DMF and Not a SMF???....Looking at both clutches in my garage they look identical. I have a SMF and like new clutch that was on the 6.9 with a 4 speed (1987) - it looks identical to what was in my diesel 5spd so that's what I planned to use for my swap....Anyone have any input on this? The IDI clutch has more lining left than the 460 (1992) clutch but both are still in really good shape.....Also what is the flywheel bolt torque spec for an IDI?....My IH IDI book only talks about heavier trans stuff.

If I remember correctly, Ron (Dsl_Dog_Catcher) is using the clutch from a 460 on his T19 IDI.

I'm not sure about the ZF clutch, but I will at some point in the future. I have a 460 parts truck that I'm going to rob the tranny from and modify it "typ4" style and put on my IDI Crew Cab. Should be able to compair the 460 and the IDI clutch side by side and see.

Heath

Honestly, I see no difference but I'm going to pull the clutch off the 460 tonight and compare them side by side....I have to do the "type4" mod's this weekend to my gasser ZF.

The only thing I noticed is the difference in the fingers in the pressure plates...The IDI pressure plate has raised fingers, the gasser version is flat......I will take some pics tonight.

BigRigTech said:

The only thing I noticed is the difference in the fingers in the pressure plates...The IDI pressure plate has raised fingers, the gasser version is flat......I will take some pics tonight.

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You will need to get an appropriate throwout bearing to match the pressure plate fingers. flat fingers= rounded bearing, raised fingers= flat bearing is usually the general rule.

Here is the wierd part, the clutch in 91 has raised fingers, it has the identical bearing as the 460 and the bearing that was still in my spare diesel trans is identical to the 460 bearing as well. I got my new bearing from Ford, it was an "F1" start to the part number.

BigRigTech said:

Honestly, I see no difference but I'm going to pull the clutch off the 460 tonight and compare them side by side....I have to do the "type4" mod's this weekend to my gasser ZF.

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Probably a dumb question: What is the "typ4" mod?

I am also very interested in this thread because my parts truck is a 460/zf5.

The type4 mod is just drilling and reaming some holes in the ZF case to accept the IDI adapter plate.

http://www.oilburners.net/forums/showthread.php?t=34788
Here is the like for the typ4 mod
Even though russ put a 460 in front of a diesel ZF. Not what you guys are talking about doing(a diesel in front of a 460 ZF)

Diesel_brad said:

http://www.oilburners.net/forums/showthread.php?t=34788
Here is the like for the typ4 mod
Even though russ put a 460 in front of a diesel ZF. Not what you guys are talking about doing(a diesel in front of a 460 ZF)

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Why would you want to? Aren't the gasser zf trannies a wide-ratio designed for much higher rpm's?

That's wierd, I had a guy swear he took the gasser ZF from one wrecker and put it in his other IDI powered wrecker...A direct bolt in he said....He was looking for another trans and he didn't care what it was out of gas or diesel.

BigRigTech said:

That's wierd, I had a guy swear he took the gasser ZF from one wrecker and put it in his other IDI powered wrecker...A direct bolt in he said....He was looking for another trans and he didn't care what it was out of gas or diesel.

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The one thing I know for sure is that the gasser ZF has a different bolt pattern than the diesel ZF. I think the main reason is that International designed and built the diesel, so ford had to design the bell housing to fit that motor. The holes aren't off by a lot though.

If he used a gasser tranny behind a diesel he had to do some modifying on it. They will not just bolt up. On my old idi which had a hard life I broke the bellhousing twice myself and have seen several ZF5's break, so I'm not real crazy about re drilling the holes in a gasser to make them fit, but would if that was all I had. As far as the gear ratios I think there were three different ratios for the zf5s.

Silver Burner said:

The one thing I know for sure is that the gasser ZF has a different bolt pattern than the diesel ZF. I think the main reason is that International designed and built the diesel, so ford had to design the bell housing to fit that motor. The holes aren't off by a lot though.

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Not completely true. The international has a standard SAE 3 bellhousing. Unlike Ford, Chevy, Chrysler, etc, who mess around with "their" engines, trannies, etc with "their" bolt patterns, the big truck people like international have standard bolt patterns for a lot of their components. So if you go to a big truck dealership to order a "real" truck, you can order any engine, any transmssion, and any rearends you want, and they will put them together for you in the truck, it's all mostly standard.

So Ford decides to go to a real truck manufacturer and put a real truck engine in their pickups(the idi). So Ford had to make a adapter to adapt the international SAE 3 to the Ford transmissions. Now here's the real question; If Ford had to make a adapter, why did they adapt to a whole new oddball pattern for the diesels? Why didn't they go ahead and make the adapter adapt to the 460 bolt pattern? Since they decided to make a oddball diesel pattern, they had to make a special casting for the c6, the bell for the 4 speeds, and had to get zf to make a special casting for the 5 speed. Thankfully Ford is still doing well, but you wonder how with this kind of thinking.