Won't start... Don't have a clue what I did wrong.

[Pele]

Okay... So I've got a 1989 F350 7.3 IDI that won't start.
It's been sitting about two years.

So far, I've replaced:
-The fuel filter (Filled it with Diesel before spinning the new one on.)
-The glow plugs (All eight were shot... No wonder the glow plug controller was clicking all the time.)
-All eight injectors (With return line caps, o-rings, etc.)
-The injection pump

I've got fuel out the schrader valve on the filter when I crank.
I've got fuel to the input of the injection pump.
I've got fuel out the return line on top of the injection pump.

I've tried soaking a rag in Diesel and laying it on top of the screen. Nothing there. Interestingly, it'll suck down through most of the cranking, but sometimes there'll be a "POP" noise and it'll jump up as if it's backfiring.

I've tried disconnecting the glow plugs and giving it a shot of ether.
It sometimes tries to start.



I've been following the 20 sec crank, 5 minutes cool down rule. I can do this a few times before it won't even crank for 20 sec. They're good Interstate batteries, only a few years old.

Truck's sitting in the middle of a parking lot in an industrial area. I don't have access to a battery charger, but I have been jumping it off the pair of Group 31's in my Cummins.



I'm gonna get a buddy and a chain and see if I can tow the thing to start. Other than that, I'm not sure what to do.

 

[riotwarrior]

Okay... So I've got a 1989 F350 7.3 IDI that won't start.
It's been sitting about two years.

So far, I've replaced:
-The fuel filter (Filled it with Diesel before spinning the new one on.)
-The glow plugs (All eight were shot... No wonder the glow plug controller was clicking all the time.)
-All eight injectors (With return line caps, o-rings, etc.)
-The injection pump

Here is the MAIN Question,

HOW did you replace the IP? Did you remove the IP FROM the gear cover or did you REMOVE THE GEAR cover from the engine with the IP attached?

Answer that and we will then proceed.

Also is it a NEW IP rebuilt or a used one of unknown condition?

Al

 

[gatorman21218]

where in VA are you?

are you getting fuel at the injectors? loosen a few injector lines and see if you are getting fuel. With a new IP it can take a while to get the air out of the system.

Dont bother with the diesel soaked rag. diesel isnt volitile enough to work like that. SMALL amounts of ether WITH the glow plugs disabled will be your best bet.

Are you getting white smoke out the exhaust when cranking?

 

[Pele]

Here is the MAIN Question,

HOW did you replace the IP? Did you remove the IP FROM the gear cover or did you REMOVE THE GEAR cover from the engine with the IP attached?

Answer that and we will then proceed.

Also is it a NEW IP rebuilt or a used one of unknown condition?

Al

New pump, still shiny with the yellow anti-tamper paint on all the screws. Not sure if it's a reman or New-Old-Stock.
I didn't have to send in a core.

I took off the little cover under the oil fill and removed three bolts. Left the timing gear in place and just matched up the keyway.

I see you've got a callsign.
73 de W3RPM

where in VA are you?

are you getting fuel at the injectors? loosen a few injector lines and see if you are getting fuel. With a new IP it can take a while to get the air out of the system.

Dont bother with the diesel soaked rag. diesel isnt volitile enough to work like that. SMALL amounts of ether WITH the glow plugs disabled will be your best bet.

Are you getting white smoke out the exhaust when cranking?

Truck's in Manassas Park, Virginia.

I'm not getting a single drop of fuel at the injector lines.
I'm getting smoke when I use ether.

Not trying to use too much because I hear you destroy engines that way.

 

[cpdenton]

Is the fuel shutoff solenoid in the ip clicking on and off when you turn the key on and off?

Did you order the ip from Pensacola diesel?

 

[bbjordan]

It can take a while to get the air out of the system

With a new IP it can take a while to get the air out of the system.

What he said.

Loosen the injector lines at the injectors. Crank the engine over, the way you are doing it, until you get fuel at the injectors. Once you get fuel to an injector, tighten the line up.

Did we say it can take a while to get the air out of the system?

 

[Fordsandguns]

Like said above, it can take a while to get all the air out. Loosen all the lines at the injectors. When you have fuel at the injectors tighten them up and it should start. Btdt. I had to learn the hard way. Tried forever it seemed to get it started and nothing. Finally loosened all the lines and cranked it until I saw the fuel. After tightening them it fired right up.

 

[riotwarrior]

when cranking engine over with lines loosened...hold throttle wide open to get more flow quicker too btw.

 

[Pele]

Is the fuel shutoff solenoid in the ip clicking on and off when you turn the key on and off?

Did you order the ip from Pensacola diesel?

I hear the solenoid clicking.
The old IP didn't click. That's why I originally started replacing it.

I did not order the pump from Pensacola. I ordered it from U-Haul surplus. It may not even be a rebuild, but a New-Old-Stock Ford unit.

Did we say it can take a while to get the air out of the system?

Well crap...

When I replaced the Injection pump in my Cummins (Bosch VP44 type) it only took a couple cranks to get it running.

 

[Agnem]

Yes, but your VP44 will die a horrible death if you fuel starve it.

Even without a functioning glow plug system, if you have fuel to the injectors you should have a whif of smoke at the exhaust. That will tell you there is fuel for combustion.

 

[riotwarrior]

Good stuff,

Uhaul IP, correctly installed, and now onto other issues.

Are you sure your LIFT pump is providing good flow? Is there fuel discharging from the Schrader valve on the fuel filter housing?

If so great, if not, that will need to be addressed so tell us that fact.

IP clicking...Great so that's a great sign too.

How fast is that puppy spinning over? Can you remove the batteries, get them charged, AND then return AND BOOST them with G31's? May be a good idea.

If all the above checks out, then when TURNING THE TRUCK OVER, you must hold throttle WIDE OPEN while the injector lines are bled, this greatly increases fuel flow through said lines to injectors, thus once fuel coming out of them you should be good to tighten and fire!

The bottom line, is fuel has to flow.

JM2CW

Al

 

[icanfixall]

Why was the truck sitting for 2 years.. Maybe the po incorrectly changed the injection puump and got the gear timing wrong.. If that can be answered we can continue helping. As for seeing any fuel out of the injecter lines usually its a very small drop. Nothing like fuel coming out of the filter bleeder. I was told be Mel who has timined many thousands of thes eengines ahs also replaced many thousands of pump too. Leave the lines connected tightly to the injecters. Crank for 20 secondes. Stop and loosen the lines. Listen for the hiss of compressed air escaping the loose nut. Tighen and do again till the engine fires off. I have found this works well too. When fuel is under pressure at the injecters it will wet the nut when you loosen the nut. That tells you your about ready to fire up. Also any white smoke from the tail pipe tells you there is fuel in the cylinders but not enough heat to fire off the engine. The faster the engine cranks the hotter the compressed air is in the cylinders. Diesl requires around 940 degrees to ignite so crank fast. Ever wonder why a towed to start engine will run.. Its the pistons rapidly compressing the air making more heat.

 

[Pele]

Yes, but your VP44 will die a horrible death if you fuel starve it.

Even without a functioning glow plug system, if you have fuel to the injectors you should have a whif of smoke at the exhaust. That will tell you there is fuel for combustion.

That's why I replaced the VP44.
The Cummins used to have a lift pump on the side of the block.
Dodge dealership decided that the stock pump wasn't crappy enough and decided to put a smaller one in the tank. Then they decided to use some wire twisted and taped together in the engine bay to power it.

Upon buying the truck and seeing some monkey looking wiring in the engine bay, I decided to remove it. Previous owner of the Cummins had a slide-in camper and I thought it might have been for that. Truck ran fine without it... For a couple weeks.

I've now got an AirDog2 165 GPH pump with 3 micron filters installed... The harness is soldered together and insulated with heat shrink, Like any permanent installation SHOULD be.

Good stuff,

Uhaul IP, correctly installed, and now onto other issues.

Are you sure your LIFT pump is providing good flow? Is there fuel discharging from the Schrader valve on the fuel filter housing?

If so great, if not, that will need to be addressed so tell us that fact.

Yup...Stock mechanical lift pump is providing fuel. Strong pulses while cranking shoots fuel out the schrader valve across the engine bay.
There is an elbow fitting for the return line on top of the injection pump. I am getting some fuel out of that too, but not nearly as powerful.

IP clicking...Great so that's a great sign too.

Old Injection pump quit running. When I tested the solenoid, it did not click and I had open circuit between its terminal and ground. That's why I replaced it.

How fast is that puppy spinning over? Can you remove the batteries, get them charged, AND then return AND BOOST them with G31's? May be a good idea.

It is turning over pretty slowly. I'm going to try pulling it with the transmission in gear.

If all the above checks out, then when TURNING THE TRUCK OVER, you must hold throttle WIDE OPEN while the injector lines are bled, this greatly increases fuel flow through said lines to injectors, thus once fuel coming out of them you should be good to tighten and fire!

The bottom line, is fuel has to flow.

I've taken the throttle cables off and removed the spring. I've got the arm pushed all the way back.

Why was the truck sitting for 2 years.. Maybe the po incorrectly changed the injection puump and got the gear timing wrong.. If that can be answered we can continue helping. As for seeing any fuel out of the injecter lines usually its a very small drop. Nothing like fuel coming out of the filter bleeder. I was told be Mel who has timined many thousands of thes eengines ahs also replaced many thousands of pump too. Leave the lines connected tightly to the injecters. Crank for 20 secondes. Stop and loosen the lines. Listen for the hiss of compressed air escaping the loose nut. Tighen and do again till the engine fires off. I have found this works well too. When fuel is under pressure at the injecters it will wet the nut when you loosen the nut. That tells you your about ready to fire up. Also any white smoke from the tail pipe tells you there is fuel in the cylinders but not enough heat to fire off the engine. The faster the engine cranks the hotter the compressed air is in the cylinders. Diesl requires around 940 degrees to ignite so crank fast. Ever wonder why a towed to start engine will run.. Its the pistons rapidly compressing the air making more heat.

Truck's been sitting because I haven't had the chance to get to messing with it. I've owned the truck for the past 7 years or so.

The truck is a Flatbed and my county says I'm not allowed to park it at my house. I drove it to a storage facility and one day it didn't start. I found that it was a bad fuel solenoid, so I replaced the injection pump.

When I changed the pump, I took the little cover off the front of the engine under the oil fill cap. I too out three bolts and left the gear in place so that the timing would not get messed up. I just matched the keyways up on the gear and new pump.

 

[riotwarrior]

I'd suggest a remote starter switch and MANUALLY HOLD throttle open

OTHERWISE if it fires with throttle WIDE OPEN it could conceivably and potentially turn into a runnaway. I'd strongly suggest putting return springs on! Hold that open by hand.

JM2CW

AL

 

[79jasper]

Since it's cranking slow, you'll probably never get it started.