Water injection?

fields_mj

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I run a blend of WVO and D2 when it's warm out, and I have WVO available. I've been reading about guys doing water injection to help keep the cylinder walls clean. Sounds like they are using a simple windshield washer reservoir and pump running to a garden style mister that's inserted somewhere in their air intake. Having said that, they are mostly doing this on early 80's Mercs, and I'm not sure how well that translates over to my 7.3. When I first got the truck om '09, I remember seeing a lot of posts about water injection, as well as some other types of injection but I wasn't interested in any of it so I didn't read up on it. Now I have a little interest, and after try a few searches for water injection, I'm not really coming up with anything. Anyone have any advise or point me towards some? If it's simple, cheap, and effective at prolonging the life of the engine and components, then I'm all for it. If it's complicated, expensive, or a waste of time, then I've already got more irons in the fire than any 2 men could handle... :)

Thanks,
Mark
 

Greg5OH

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look into HHO systems as well. I have some great research papers on it if you would like, just PM me.
not uncommon to see a 20% increase in torque, decent reduction in fuel consumption, and much lower emissions.
 

fields_mj

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I'd love to read the paper, especially if there's info in it that pertains specifically to the 6.9/7.3L IDI. Mine is N/A, not turbo, and I'm not as conserned about increased performance as I am keeping the carbon cleaned out. I burn my WVO mix in my front tank, but I don't have any extra valving or any addional heat for the fuel system (although I do hope to add a heater to the fuel filter this fall). I do a decent job of shutting down and starting up on the rear tank (D2), but since I'm using the stock fuel selection system, I am getting contamination from the front tank into the rear tank from the return lines, and I do occationally forget to make the switch so I end up having to start on my blend. With over 220K on the engine, I'm confident that it's got plenty of life left in it, but the rest of the truck is going down hill thanks largely to the winter salt here in Indiana, and the fantastic condition of our roads (makes me so glad to pay my taxes). Anyway, back on point. From what I've read so far, guys who burn WVO, or WVO blends really like the water injection for elliminating the carbon buildup in the engine. From the sounds of it, they are not using very much water, and probably not enough to make a significant differnece in the engine's performance, nor do I really care about an increase in HP or TQ. I'm burning my mix for around $1 a gal, so I'm not really concerned about fuel millage as much while I'm using it :)

Having said all that, like Mr. Fox from Co, I do occationally pull a 5,000 lb camper, and there are select times when a little extra performance would be nice. Mainly out on the highway/interstate. If the water injection works out, and I want to try something, I figure I could always add some Liquid Heet to the water before I head out with the camper. I've got 3.55 gears and with a camper behind me, I need to keep the rpm at 2K or above when I'm on the highway. Anything lower than 2K and I have to down shift. That means I'm running at least 65 in 4th gear before I can shift. I don't think the **** injection will help me get into 5th gear any easier in this case, but since it should help me get a more complete burn, and since I don't have a turbo, it may actually help. While it would be a neat little perk, it's not that important to me. We only camp 6 to 8 times a year, and the campgrounds are 2 hrs or less each way (30 min most of the time), and I'm burning a WVO/D2 mix at $1 a gal. So the only benifit I see out of it is keeping my RPMs down some. Back and forth to work, the truck rarely see's over 2300 rpm, so having to run her down the highway in 4th gear at 2500+ for extended periods does make me a little uncomfortable, but in the end I know she needs to be run at least a little hard every once in a while so who knows.
 

NapaBavarian

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If you go with water injection don't forget the check valve just before nozzel. I think they are usually a pressure sensitive valve that opens around 100psi, this keeps water from dribbeling in with the engine off.

If you read about HHO there are some conflicting reports out there and a lot of BS, remember, the HHO systems only really work on mechanically injected diesels, and they work by helping facilitate a full and complete burn of the fuel droplets. They may have some effect on high pressure diesels too, but those are more efficient to begin with.
 

gatorman21218

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not to hijack the thread, but that can only be installed on a turbo diesel correct?

No I dont see why you couldnt use it on a natural engine. However its not going to help a whole lot as the main reason for the water is to cool the intake air. The intake air really gets hot with a turbo. Water/**** acts as an aftercooler.
 

Greg5OH

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will work just fine on an electronically controlled diesel. Just need to tune for it.
HHO acts almost as a catalyst, in which you are corect it helps burn the fuel better. I believe it is also the key for high revving race diesels, as they are limited by diesel fuels burn rate.
Definitly have to reach university and technical articles, not just you read on chevy power or the likes. (there are dedicated forums to HHO where guys really know their stuff, but for the hardcore facts and results, lab tests need to be done and read about.)
The funniest is when i was googling plasma ignition. Some chevy website a chap simply posted. woah this is nuts. I dont believe this works at all. complete garbage. ya...right.
Thats why for my university grad project we were able to see a 70% reduction in CO, and a 20% increase in H20 and C02. (indicating a more complete burn).
 

fields_mj

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On one hand, I have a BS degree in Mech Eng. On the other hand, I've been so far out of acedamia for so long that reading lab results and research papers isn't nearly as benificial to me as it used to be... lol I'm not worried as much about how much better it is on the eniviroment (although I realise that I should be), and for my current truck, I'm really not concerned about increases in peformance although they would be icing in the cake. I'm more interested in does WI really help keep the inside of a diesel engine clean (ie longer life out of the fuel injection system) - Anwer= Yes; Will such a system work effectivly to this end on a 7.3L NA IDI - Answer= Yes; How much water needs to be injected and when - Answer= ?; Do these systems work equally as well with newer, or even current productin diesels as well allowing them to effectivly burn WVO or WMO blends with little or negetive long term effects - Answer= ?.

From what I've found so far, there's no question that on our old mech diesels, WI does a great job of keeping them clean. My only real questions at this point are on a NA engine, what can I use to trigger the pump and/or solenoid to begine the WI, and how much or how little water to I need to keep things clean when buring WMO? I've found one place that sells a small switch that can be used to turn a pump and/or solenoid on and off. The switch can be purchased to measure pressure (boost) or vacuum. Since I'm NA, I'm thinking vacuum might work for me, but how much vacuum is my intake seeing during normal use? For my driving habits, I'd like to see the WI come on around 2000 rpm. Not sure if that's even possible or not. If I were able to make that work on my truck, I might even go as far as setting up a second nozzel that triggered around 2300 rpm for when I'm pulling the camper down the hwy and can't get into 5th gear (3.55 gears) without getting pulled over for speeding.

One of the reasons that I'd like to play around with this some on my truck is because it looks like guys are using it on late model trucks and its allowing them to run high percentage WMO blends without trashing their systems. The only way I'm going to be able to afford to replace my truck down the road with another diesel is to be able to find a way to effectively run an alternative fuel in it without having to invest thousands of dollars into a tempermental, or unreliable fuel heating system that's then going to take me weeks to get installed into the vehicle. Requiring 2 tanks to run an alt fuel is also very restrictive. It's okay for me with the stock 2 tank system, but having to add an additional fuel tank to my next truck would be a major strike against using an alt fuel. From the looks of it, a good, reliable WI system can be easily pieced together for relativly cheap. Some are doing it on old merc engines for $20~$30. I'm not looking for something that cheap and crude to use on a "new" truck, but even the higher end stuff looks to be under a grand. My goal is to learn on my current vehicle and not tear it up in the process so that next year I have enough knowledge and experience to know what works and what doesn't. That will help me narrow my search criteria next year when I start looking for a replacment vehicle. I'm still at least 2 years out from that (I hope), but I tend to start looking early, and do lots of looking so that I do very little spending, and I only do the spending once.... ;)
 

Greg5OH

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you wont be seeing a vacuum on any diesel engine unless the aur filter is dirty or intake piping is too small.
i would try either using the "TPS" sensor as it have about a 4 volt sweep, and/oelr egt probe for referance.
 

justinray

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I like the idea of using the EGT and setting it for a 900* on and a 650* off. If it were turbo'd I'd probably go a little higher to 1000* on and 700* off. That's just me though. The FIPL (Tps) would be sketchy at best because the throttle position isn't always an indicator of performance, load, or rpm. Also, its not even electric on a C6 equipped truck so it would be a task to fab something up to go that route.
 

fields_mj

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One of the big arguments against WVO and even more so the WMO is that it's easy to coke up the injectors if things aren't done just right even on our old IDIs. On the electronic injection systems, it appears even worse. What I'm seeing is that WI will keep the engine clean and coke free.

How hard is it to add an EGT probe? I don't currently have one and have no idea what my temps generally run. I had ask around about the need for one, and the feedback that I got was that since I'm NA, I'm not going to be able to push my EGTs high enough to be dangerous so I never pursued it.
 

justinray

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Thats entirely untrue, being NA, it's easier to push your EGT's too high, and even easier if you can't watch them.
 

Kevin 007

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EGT's are the number one reason I would consider WI. Like you, I am not concerned about making more power, but EGT's are always and issue when working a N/A engine hard.

I don't have WI nor have I ever installed or used a system. But maybe one day.
 
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