Water Injection Really?

[finitetime]

I came across water injection on a couple of sites and have been reading up on it. I found Snow Performance and this is what they had to say in the performance section.

The extra power produced depends heavily on the concentration of methanol used and the volume injected. Typical power gains in 5.9L and larger applications with a 50% mixture of water/methanol are 50-100 WHP and a 100-150ft lb-ft increase in torque.


This doesn't seem like it could be true or its to risky to install on an engine cause I've been reading through these idi sites and haven't found much on it. If you could get 100hp for $400 wouldn't everyone have one.

What do you guys think is it worth it or is it a scam?
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[Sw1tchfoot]

I doubt they are actually gaining that much power from the water injection alone. They are getting more power because it's lowering the EGT's so they can burn more fuel.

 

[racer30]

steam expands 19 times from its liquid form of water, remember steam once ruled the world as a power source. Its a simple matter of expantion in a cylinder with a side benefit of cooling the egts of a hard working cumbustion engine. methanol helps the water vaporize and cool the incoming air charge at the same time. It works in a gasser as well to reduce knock and ping under heavy loads.

 

[finitetime]

What kind of gains would I be looking at in a stock 7.3 non turbo. I have an onboard 12v air system so I was thinking all I needed was a tank I could fill and pressureize, cutoff silnoid and the nozzel. I would just regulate the tank pressure to a constant psi and use it when I was pulling on the highway. No pump or electrical wiring required.

 

[bbjordan]

water liquid to steam expansion

steam expands 19 times from its liquid form

19? Try 1600 times!

 

[icanfixall]

19? Try 1600 times!

Actually its about 1667 times. I worked for 30 years in a generating station and machine shop where we repaired what the steam did to valves and turbine blades. When water is heated to 746 degrees and compressed to 3200 lbs it has gone back to all the propertys of a liquid water. If you could actually see it in the steam lines it would look and flow just like water. Its called stuff and the scientific term for it is critical. Now increase in temp and pressure its called super critical. We ran it up to 1050 degrees and 4200 lbs of pressure just to get it into the boliers. At the throttles it was 3500 lbs. The WWII ships ran about 1600 degree steam but at a lower final pressure than we did. So if you have a gallon of water and flash it to steam it becomes equal to 1900 gallons of steam.. Or there abouts. The sound of it screaming thru the boilers and steam lines was increditable. Hearing protection is something required or you suffered hearing loss. Even when wearing the ear plugs I would turn up the radio driving home after work. The next morning it sounded like someone had turened up the volume way too high in the car..... It took me several years to figure out what was going on..... Steam once ruled the world. It still does pwer most of the Navy ships like the big carriers. The nuclear reastors make the heat that makes the steam that turns the turbines that turns the props or turns the generaters that turns the props in the submarines. So what it does in our combustion areas is clean the carbon and act like as a cooling aid. Nos is non flamible but it adds another oxygen molique to the air in the chamber to allow more fuel to be burned.. Funny how that works.. And no... Just injecting pure oxygen to the cylinders wont do much but it will blow up the engine. Compressed air might be something we could look into but how long is a bottle of that going to last.

 

[flareside_thun]

Friggin spam bots.

To the op, do a search on here for biofarmer...he'll have some info.

 

[icanfixall]

Friggin spam bots.

To the op, do a search on here for biofarmer...he'll have some info.

So I wasn't the only person to see the spam all over several forums late nite. I tried to keep alerting the mods about where each attack was found but when it past the count od 7 I just gave up and went to bed. Giauyna fools wanting to crach this site. Catch em and feed them to the hogs....

 

[FORDF250HDXLT]

http://oilburners.net/articles/splash.htm

safer alternative:
http://www.oilburners.net/forums/showthread.php?t=4911&highlight=intercooler

 

[88beast]

water **** is great and opens up huge power potentials and the numbers sound about right with some tweaking of the motor.
its not practical for the idis
one most of us got over 100k many over 300k and adding that much power on anything with that milage can cause issues
also most idi guys want simple reiablility and filing that tank too and having more to go wrong is not a good idea.
also trouble shooting anything is harder as the **** will affect a lot of the process if you got a knock is there too much or too little or is it a motor issue? so you can see why its not big with the idi guys here

 

[wmoguy]

water **** is great and opens up huge power potentials and the numbers sound about right with some tweaking of the motor.
its not practical for the idis
one most of us got over 100k many over 300k and adding that much power on anything with that milage can cause issues
also most idi guys want simple reiablility and filing that tank too and having more to go wrong is not a good idea.
also trouble shooting anything is harder as the **** will affect a lot of the process if you got a knock is there too much or too little or is it a motor issue? so you can see why its not big with the idi guys here

Have you ever run water ****?

To the OP: you aren't going to get those performance gains from an N/A plain and simple, please don't be fooled otherwise (and I doubt you'll get that from a bomb'd and turbo'd IDI) I've personally seen those advertised gains on my own diesels (not my IDI) BUT, those were seriously bombed motors that pushed a bunch of boost and sucked down a lot of diesel. I've got mine on my IDI now, and what I like is the EGT drop is significant. Yes it's got more go go too.. I haven't yet dyno'd w/ and w/o water **** but I'm confident in stating "those #'s sound about right" as anything but accurate for an IDI.

IMHO Snow's setup is the best on the market. I"ve personally known Matt Snow since he founded that company and was working out of his garage. He's done really well for himself, and the growth of his company is evident of the product they produce. His stuff is excellent quality and IMHO priced reasonably well. That said, as much as I like their stuff, if I had my druthers of either a turbo'd IDI or an N/A IDI w/ Water **** I'd take turbo'd anyday of the week, speaking strictly from a performance gain perspective. If the budget allowed for both, then by all means I'd go for both.
The dribble on the "extra headaches of having to add fluid to a water **** system" is goofy. A 2 gallon reservoir will last a GOOD 900 miles on an Stage 1 system and the right nozzle. I surely don't see that as an "extra headache...."
Reliability: yes, any power adder is going to affect the longevity. That includes adding turbo's to a motor not designed to be turbo'd, etc.... By how much this affects (water ****) an IDI(T) no one really knows. There are plenty out there running it. Done moderately (moderately being the keyword) i think you're fine. But ss the old saying goes: "Speed costs, how fast can you afford to go?"

Oh yea, one thing I do know, DO NOT jack with the % of water **** ratio beyond reasonable levels. The instances I've personally witnessed destruction on a friends PSD w/ water **** was when he got greedy and decided 80% methanol 20% water was a good idea. Lets just say it was a poor decision.

 

[Black dawg]

I built a water/**** deal for my truck a few years ago. I dont remember how much I was injecting, but it was les than what was advertized commercially. The gains were way more than I expected, easily 50hp. I took it off the same day cause it made my e4od feel pretty soft.

This was on a turbo truck with -30 washer fluid.

Put that same system on my brothers truck and it only felt like 25hp.

Mine: 7.3 auto non gated ats 15psi max, pump maxed
His: 7.3 zf upgraded factory turbo 18psi max, pump maxed

 

[finitetime]

wmoguy
I didn't really expect to get those gains. I figured the only way I would get that kind of power would be on one already putting out a couple hundred more hp than mine.

I burn used veg oil in my truck. I was primary thinking about using it to help keep the varnish and build up down and maybe a little extra power. I have no intention of putting a putting a turbo on it cause it is a work truck and I don't see spending $2000 for 20hp as a cost effective move. I would not put **** in it either until it got below freezing out for the antifreeze side of it. I built my own wvo setup and think I could do the same with the water injection pretty cheap. I pull with it and its real heavy and long grades sometimes. So if I can inject water for free and keep the temp down and a couple of hp I would be fine.

There's got be be a happy median between keeping the internal temp down and adding a few hp that would equal out and not subtract from the life of the engine. Speed kills but high heat kills too.

I take it easy on my truck most of the time. I am one of the slow people doing the speed limit on the interstate. There are times though when I'm pulling I might be doing 50 down the highway and she's putten out all she has to get us there.

 

[wmoguy]

Fini: sounds like you are a great candidate then since you have sone real world expectations. talk to biofarmer93 on here. hes posted some real postive results for what your looking for in water ****. hes actually the guy that got me off my keyster to put mine on since i need to keep mine clean with my fuel cocktails. iirc biofarmer93 is N/A'd also.

Also welcome to the end all be all for ford IDI diesels!

 

[finitetime]

Black dog ya I agree. Everything I have is stock and I think that's more than it could handle. I don't want that much. I was thinking about a system where I could regulate the pressure and therefore the volume. I really don't even want it for daily driving just when I'm pulling and to turn it on just a little and use it to clean the inside of the engine out as I drive down the interstate.

I am looking to use it to help extend the engine life by keeping things clean and having a little extra power when I need it. But most of the time it would not be turned on.