Trying to upgrade DD on a budget

[Zion]

Recently I’ve been diving down the rabbit hole on marketplace trying to find turbo-kits and ZF5s in the hopes that I can drive the 1800 miles home from college come winter break. My N/A 1984 is currently equipped with 4.10s, a t-18 with no synchros, one half-working front tank, and bad air intrusion. Honestly, I don’t know how it made it all the way from Iowa to Oregon in the first place, but here I am. All that aside, I’m trying to budget for some improvements to make the truck a practical DD instead of a single-cab tractor.

- Concerning air intrusion and fuel:
I know for a fact the injection pump is leaking from the hard-line screw-caps on the IP. I replaced it when I got here and had to swap the lines in my dorm’s study room, and trying to tighten those caps one-handed while wrestling the pump to stay still didn’t work out. That’s an easy fix if I can find a workbench, but I know there’s intrusion beyond that. The lift pump may be going out, so I’ve entertained the R&D electric pump kit. Fuel selector is probably junk, along with the floats/pickup tube.

- Concerning turbos and transmissions:
I had a tentative arrangement with a guy in WA to get an ATS kit and ZF5 with all the parts necessary to swap for around $1000. Didn’t work out, which leaves me with less economical options. A turbo kit would be nice for power and economy, but less integral than having OD. Unfortunately, it seems that both turbo and trans are getting the Cummins treatment, meaning they cost an arm and a leg if you can find them. On top of all that, I’m most likely going to get slaughtered on shop costs unless I can do all the work in a campus parking-lot. My 4spd works enough to get around, but will spit out 1st-3rd if you stop accelerating, and the only way to hit 4th without grinding gears is by a well-timed double clutch.

I’ve been messing around with IDIs for about a year now, but am still at the tip of the iceberg in terms of mechanical ability and market familiarity. I know I’m going to have to pick and choose what I can do on a budget of around ~$3000, but don’t have the experience to make a smart choice. In the hopes that someone has been through a similar situation, what’s the most feasible way to get my IDI to do functional cross-country driving? Still haven’t had any luck finding shops near Corvallis, or making connections with nearby members, but I’ll keep working at it.

 

[IDIBRONCO]

If you aren't having much luck at finding a ZF5, maybe you could consider using 3.55 gears instead of the 4.10s. If your truck is a 4X2, then you only have one axle to worry about. Maybe you could even find an entire rear end that's in good shape and swap it in. If you have a 4X4, it may not be worth the effort to try to swap out both axles considering all of your other issues.

 

[Zion]

If you aren't having much luck at finding a ZF5, maybe you could consider using 3.55 gears instead of the 4.10s. If your truck is a 4X2, then you only have one axle to worry about. Maybe you could even find an entire rear end that's in good shape and swap it in. If you have a 4X4, it may not be worth the effort to try to swap out both axles considering all of your other issues.

It’s 4x4, so that does hinder things. I considered re-gearing the rear and disconnecting the front drive shaft, but it’s not exactly a net gain as you mentioned. I’ve found a few ZF5s, but I’m not sure if they have all of the components necessary to do the swap. Given how much they cost (~$1500+-$500), I don’t feel comfortable halving my buying power on a used transmission that could bring a large shop bill due to missing components.

 

[u2slow]

Keep looking for ZF5's.... In different places. They've never been more than $200-300 anytime I've had the urge to snap one up.

Be prepared to have to throw in a bearing kit and synchros at this point.

I wouldn't rule out a diff swap (both ends) for the right price. 3.54 is really common. 3.07 is harder to find. Stepping up the tire size helps too.

 

[Zion]

Keep looking for ZF5's.... In different places. They've never been more than $200-300 anytime I've had the urge to snap one up.

Be prepared to have to throw in a bearing kit and synchros at this point.

I wouldn't rule out a diff swap (both ends) for the right price. 3.54 is really common. 3.07 is harder to find. Stepping up the tire size helps too.

Any places I should be paying attention to? Getting the trans itself is one thing, trying to gather up all the necessary parts to swap out a t-18 seems to be a whole other journey. I’ve researched rebuild kits for a t-18, could definitely be a good option, but might take away from the budget if I’m shooting for an overdrive

 

[u2slow]

CL? Local ads? (i do notice FB marketplace has gone to some huge asking $$$$). If you can't find the diesel ZF for a low buck, you may be further ahead rebuilding the t18 and axle swap. My ford 10.25" diffs won't sell unless I price them below $200. A front chunk maybe $100... people scrap TTB easily, so any $$ is a win.

I had an 84 diesel suburban for while. The th400 and 4.10 was terrible for the commuting I was doing. NV4500's were untouchable. I put a 3.21 axle and a 4spd manual in there on the cheap. That was the ticket. I went from 12mpg to 17.

Good luck

 

[IDIBRONCO]

That's surprising. Most of the diesel Suburbans that I've seen had 700R4 transmissions. Very few had a 3 speed auto.

 

[nitroguy]

One tip I've found is to find the people who don't know what they have. A search for "zf-5" means you're looking at a very small subset of people who understand the value of it to list it that way.
But someone who has a rusted out manual truck in their front yard and their husband just left town and they need it gone? You can get the whole thing for $500 I bet. So find the years that the zf-5 came behind the idi and find those years, manual transmission, and start buying.

Also, junk yards.

 

[lotzagoodstuff]

I would start by saying that I really respect your gumption, planning, and budgetary discretion on your tentative project. Although it's been a long while since I was in college, I remember driving a <$500 car between the far east side of Cleveland and Akron for the better part of 9 years. IMNSHO, being broke and going to school on a tight as little as possible budget really is part of the experience of going to school.

That being said, I think you might want to consider short and long term. If you put together all the necessary parts, and your truck got 20 miles to the gallon, it would be 90 gallons of fuel. At 3.80ish a gallon (and rising) that puts you at $342 in fuel each way. I really do love the trans swap idea: I've driven to and from the Midwest to the Northwest several times and overdrive is your friend for that trip. That being said, in my opinion, I'd think about a plane ticket. It's not just that the $700 will take a lot of your immediate budget, but if you run into something major, it might break the back of your IDI budget.

I am a big fan of going home for the holidays, but I'd look at a flight or possible carpool/bus for budgetary reasons.

Good luck whichever path you choose. And study hard: that stuff really does matter for your first gig.

 

[Zion]

I would start by saying that I really respect your gumption, planning, and budgetary discretion on your tentative project. Although it's been a long while since I was in college, I remember driving a <$500 car between the far east side of Cleveland and Akron for the better part of 9 years. IMNSHO, being broke and going to school on a tight as little as possible budget really is part of the experience of going to school.

That being said, I think you might want to consider short and long term. If you put together all the necessary parts, and your truck got 20 miles to the gallon, it would be 90 gallons of fuel. At 3.80ish a gallon (and rising) that puts you at $342 in fuel each way. I really do love the trans swap idea: I've driven to and from the Midwest to the Northwest several times and overdrive is your friend for that trip. That being said, in my opinion, I'd think about a plane ticket. It's not just that the $700 will take a lot of your immediate budget, but if you run into something major, it might break the back of your IDI budget.

I am a big fan of going home for the holidays, but I'd look at a flight or possible carpool/bus for budgetary reasons.

Good luck whichever path you choose. And study hard: that stuff really does matter for your first gig.

I’m not opposed to the plane ticket idea, and have it as a plan B given I can’t get anything done before Dec. 10ish. The only issue is finding what to do with the truck while I’m gone for roughly a month. I don’t have any friends/family remotely nearby, and I brought what few earthly possessions I have in that truck. It might be a few hundred just to get things shipped back, and I’d still have to find some way to store the truck in the meantime. I’ve already budgeted for fuel, so the fuel costs don’t dig away from my budget, but the numbers on the pump still make me flinch. The truck did kill an IP on its way here, but given the condition of the truck when I bought it, I wasn’t surprised. I’d like to get OD for long term, considering it’s the only vehicle I own. Just a matter of vigilance and luck at this point

 

[Zion]

One tip I've found is to find the people who don't know what they have. A search for "zf-5" means you're looking at a very small subset of people who understand the value of it to list it that way.
But someone who has a rusted out manual truck in their front yard and their husband just left town and they need it gone? You can get the whole thing for $500 I bet. So find the years that the zf-5 came behind the idi and find those years, manual transmission, and start buying.

Also, junk yards.

Local junk yards are set to be my next haunt when I’ve got time between classes. I’ve tried searching IDIs by 87-94, and even 1st gen 7.3 PSDs, but it seems like online sellers have gotten savvier. Might check classifieds/auctions if I can find a newspaper

 

[Farmer Rock]

You can also use a zf5 that came in a 460 truck. IIRC, you just have to drill out the correct holes for the IDI block, but it's an aluminum bellhousing, so that shouldn't be too hard at all. I just finished going from a 4 speed in my 6.9 4x4 to zf5 out of an f super duty/450. The f super duty trucks use a 4x4 trans but are 2wd (from factory), and they have a tail shaft mounted parking brake that bolts in place of the transfer case in a 4x4 truck. Everything bolts right up, except the trans cross member and trans tunnel pan. I was able to use the t19 cross member and move it back like 1 inch using two factory drilled holes, and drilling two more.
So anyways... You can use a 460 zf5 or a zf5 out of an f super duty 460 or diesel.
I am extremely happy with the swap, and would definitely do it again. I have 3.55 gears, and while it wasn't terrible without overdrive, it is not only a huge improvement in mpg, but also less wear and tear on the truck and myself when your running 2k rpms instead of 2800 rpms doing 65.
I encourage the zf5 swap by all means, but
keep in mind, there will be a lot of small things that set you back and you may not have figured them in, and especiallyif you are doing the job yourself in a parking lot.
You will obviously have to drop the 4 speed and transfer case, clutch, both drive shafts, the seat and carpet/mat. Then new clutch for the zf5, hoist up trans and transfer case, change atf, figure out something for the cross member and tunnel, and then it would only make sense to replace u joints if needed. It's not a bad job really, the big pain is the clutch hydraulics if you have to replace them. You should be able to reuse yours and avoid an unbelievable amount of clutch pumping and brake fluid all over. Just make sure you don't let the slave cylinder extend out of the bracket or you will be bleeding the lines one way or the other. If it has the small plastic retainer on the pushrod still, then just snap that on and you'll be fine, if not, you can very cautiously use a C clamp.


Rock

 

[Zion]

You can also use a zf5 that came in a 460 truck. IIRC, you just have to drill out the correct holes for the IDI block, but it's an aluminum bellhousing, so that shouldn't be too hard at all. I just finished going from a 4 speed in my 6.9 4x4 to zf5 out of an f super duty/450. The f super duty trucks use a 4x4 trans but are 2wd (from factory), and they have a tail shaft mounted parking brake that bolts in place of the transfer case in a 4x4 truck. Everything bolts right up, except the trans cross member and trans tunnel pan. I was able to use the t19 cross member and move it back like 1 inch using two factory drilled holes, and drilling two more.
So anyways... You can use a 460 zf5 or a zf5 out of an f super duty 460 or diesel.
I am extremely happy with the swap, and would definitely do it again. I have 3.55 gears, and while it wasn't terrible without overdrive, it is not only a huge improvement in mpg, but also less wear and tear on the truck and myself when your running 2k rpms instead of 2800 rpms doing 65.
I encourage the zf5 swap by all means, but
keep in mind, there will be a lot of small things that set you back and you may not have figured them in, and especiallyif you are doing the job yourself in a parking lot.
You will obviously have to drop the 4 speed and transfer case, clutch, both drive shafts, the seat and carpet/mat. Then new clutch for the zf5, hoist up trans and transfer case, change atf, figure out something for the cross member and tunnel, and then it would only make sense to replace u joints if needed. It's not a bad job really, the big pain is the clutch hydraulics if you have to replace them. You should be able to reuse yours and avoid an unbelievable amount of clutch pumping and brake fluid all over. Just make sure you don't let the slave cylinder extend out of the bracket or you will be bleeding the lines one way or the other. If it has the small plastic retainer on the pushrod still, then just snap that on and you'll be fine, if not, you can very cautiously use a C clamp.


Rock

I’ve already asked around and I don’t think doing the swap in the parking lot will be an option given EPA on spilled fluids and liability. To add insult to injury, the engineering college I pay out of state for has zilch in terms of automotive shops or student resources. Real shame, I was half excited to try the ratchet-strap method. I figure unless I meet a Good Samaritan that can hold my hand through the swap process, I’m going to have to resort to a shop. There are certainly a decent number of 460 ZF5s floating around for a decent price, but between flywheel/clutch issues and the loss of 4x4, I’m not sure if that would be my best option. It would certainly give me OD, and I’ve heard that the 460 gearing is preferable to some, but it’d take a rebuild if I ever wanted 4x4 capabilities again.

 

[Farmer Rock]

I’ve already asked around and I don’t think doing the swap in the parking lot will be an option given EPA on spilled fluids and liability. To add insult to injury, the engineering college I pay out of state for has zilch in terms of automotive shops or student resources. Real shame, I was half excited to try the ratchet-strap method. I figure unless I meet a Good Samaritan that can hold my hand through the swap process, I’m going to have to resort to a shop. There are certainly a decent number of 460 ZF5s floating around for a decent price, but between flywheel/clutch issues and the loss of 4x4, I’m not sure if that would be my best option. It would certainly give me OD, and I’ve heard that the 460 gearing is preferable to some, but it’d take a rebuild if I ever wanted 4x4 capabilities again.

I don't think I understand why you would lose 4x4.. the only flywheel/clutch issues would be swapping the single mass flywheel out of your truck for a dual mass or there are ways to reuse the single mass with the zf5 clutch.


Rock

 

[mintmoballen]

I’d still have to find some way to store the truck in the meantime.

If it ends up going that way I think I have a place you could store your truck not far from campus, over by the fairgrounds. Just lemme know.