The End of the line?

[Agnem]

Bad news coming out of Indianapolis. Looks like the Ford breakaway from using IH motors will doom the plant that built all of our engines. I'm sure there is a lot of room for debate about why things happened the way they did, and I'm sure a lot of us are ready to say that they did it to themselves, with the 6x liter product that they have been building these last 4 years or so. Having worked for a company that downsized into oblivion (you'll find a big concrete pad where my employer used to be not but a few blocks away from the below picture of our beloved home), I know that their are lots of contributing factors that lead to plant closings. I also know that the engineers and line workers there could probably do a lot better than their management allowed, and no doubt Ford helped guide their decisions that lead to mistakes, so the fault is probably not entirely theirs. I can only sense the frustration that all those who will loose their jobs are probably feeling, and I can't help but think that by allowing this plant to close, a door will be shut that cannot be reopened, if for some reason the Ford diesel fails. This COULD be very ugly. My main concern is if this will affect our spare parts supply or not.

Interesting reading here.

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[hesutton]

That is sad to hear. What is Ford's plan? Do they really have a quality, reliable, powerful, and puke "green" diesel replace the IH power plant? Talk about unproven! I would like to get my hands on an '09 IH powered truck before the Ford diesel pickup is a thing of the past.

If this Ford diesel is a flop...........who do they have to fall back on???? Not Cummins, not IH, not puke Isuzu.....?????

Heath

 

[icanfixall]

Wouldn't it be great if a rouge manager decided to run a few hundred idi blocks thru the line.... I would buy 10 right now... I just want the new blocks. everything else is readly available.... Yes... Its the end of the line but its also a new begining too.

 

[kcw12]

Well these International motors have been good up till the powerstroke. Ford needs to go to a inline 6 design and get a motor that produces torque down low, Im talking 1200-1300 with a peak about 1500-1600 and gearing to keep them there. I dont want to wind me motor up to 1800 to make power let alone 3000 to get peak hp. These are a diesel for gods sake.

 

[Dsl_Dog_Treat]

I fear that Ford may be making a big mistake by venturing on their own diesel engine production. With R & D and retooling costs to get a reliable engine on the roads in these tough economic times is gonna cost more than some serious coin.
Compounded with the egos and the stubborness of the 2 companies will no doubtedly have a lasting effect for many. Good or bad that has yet to be seen.
I'm sure with the large number of IH power plants on the road, I think parts supplies will remain good for some time to come.

 

[Michael Fowler]

Egos and stubborness?!!
You don't say.

I'm shocked! Shocked!

 

[Michael Fowler]

Whew!
For a minute there, I thought Mel had given up on one of the many iterations of "Moose" vehicles.

 

[Agnem]

Don't be silly.



In related news, I read elsewhere that the two companies are continuing a joint venture they are calling "blue diamond". Aledgedly this is the arm that will take care of all the parts and ongoing support, as well as constructing F-650 and F-750 trucks. I wonder what will happen with the Duramax? IH casts their blocks in that same building. I wonder if there is sufficient demand to keep the foundry going.

 

[memphisrain]

I read somewhere that Ford actually has lots of experience with diesel engines, they are just all over in Europe. Supposedly, they've been putting diesels in small passenger cars over there for years.


mR

 

[kcw12]

Yeah ford diesels overseas are common. It would fords best interest to do that themselves, unless they produce junk. For needs to go for straight reliblity and not worry about if they're winning the power game.

 

[hesutton]

Ford needs to go to a inline 6 design and get a motor that produces torque down low.......

It is my understanding that Ford wanted the V8 design, not an inline 6. That is the info. provided by Diesel Power in their article about the IDI in the October (IIRC) issue. Why? Marketing I guess......who knows.

2010 models will be coming this fall...........anyone see/hear anything about this "Ford" diesel? I hope they have something very, very close to production at this point.

Heath

 

[92F350CC]

It's a 6.7 V8, named the Scorpion. I don't know if that will be the official name, or if it is just a code name. They could very well keep Powerstroke, since Ford owns the name. They've been doing a lot of testing on it for the past year I believe. They are going back to a single turbo design. It will have the heads reversed, much like the new 4.5 v8 d-max. So the exhaust will exit into the valley where the turbo will sit, so less thermal energy will be lost before the turbo. I can imagine it will be a headache to work on. But Ford has had experience overseas with diesels(I believe they are going with a lot of Land Rover ideas). I also think they used to build tractor motors back in the day and that they were supposedly pretty decent.

 

[Hoss6.9]

I say - Stay with the V-8..... There is nothing like the sound of a v-8 Diesel thrua good set of pipes. I have a 1965 Mack B755 with the 865CI V-8 at 325hp. And I have been around it for 35 yrs. And like I said before. There is nothing like the sound of a V-8.... Just my $.02.... Personally - I have never cared for a Cummins.... In a big truck -I will take my Caterpillar any day of the week and I am sad to hear that with such strong EPA regs. That Cat has decided to drop out of the over-the-road market. I know that there have been issues with the Acert engine too.... Anyhow - I say stay with the V-8.... And it will remain to be seen how the new Ford (Scorpion) will prove itself too.... Get a bowl of popcorn and sit back and see.... I know that I won't be affording anything like that anyway myself.... I can't justify any pickup costing more than the tractor that I make my living with....

 

[kcw12]

It is my understanding that Ford wanted the V8 design, not an inline 6. That is the info. provided by Diesel Power in their article about the IDI in the October (IIRC) issue. Why? Marketing I guess......who knows.

2010 models will be coming this fall...........anyone see/hear anything about this "Ford" diesel? I hope they have something very, very close to production at this point.

Heath

That may be true, If i ever get the chance I will put a cummins in the 69 for a few reasons low end torque and fuel milage. The IDI is a very good motor for what it was designed for. It was designed to go and go and go and go, but at what cost. Fuel Milage and power, are both lacking in these motors. If ford would make a 300 six of diesels they would be so far ahead in the game i dont think any of the other two could catch up.

 

[82F100SWB]

Power numbers for the Scorpion are rumored to be 390HP 720FT/LB, all the other details have already been mentioned here. If they are indeed using internal european diesel technology, the end product should be good.
Land Rover has offered a 3.6L twin turbo V8 diesel pushing 272HP and 472ft/lb since 2006, and everything I've seen about it has been good. Peak HP is at 4000, TQ at 2000, but, it is a small engine, 220 cubic inches, so the high rpm is to be expected.