Sticking lifters?

[Petes]

Greetings all... I've searched the forums and can't find much info on lifters in a 6.9L... plenty about stuck valves (and the fun they can cause) but I'm trying to be optimistic here...

My (new to me - 235k miles) '85 6.9L rattles quite a bit until it warms up - I'm pretty sure it's sticking lifters, as after about 10 minutes it quiets right down to a "normal" diesel racket. The truck sat for 3yrs prior to my picking it up. I'd like to address it properly, as I have a perfect visual image of how a rod could/would get cockeyed if the lifter isn't pumping up properly... and where things could go from there.

Can the lifters be removed without pulling the heads? What's the best way to determine if they're sticking (with least amount of dissasembly) and/or remedy them?

Thanks all,
Pete

'85 F250 6.9L Extracab longbed 4x4 w/C6 and 4:10s... it's not fast, but it could pull a house.

 

[icanfixall]

I don't think you have a lifter problem. These motors have a cold advance that steps up the injection pump advance when its below 120 degrees coolant. That may very well be what you are hearing on a cold start up. To test this start the motor. Now remove the wire connector on the injection pump that controls power to the advance circut. Its the wire on the passenger side on the injection pump. The other one is the fuel shutoff solenoid. If you remove that wire the motor will shut down. Give it a try. It wont cost anything. Hopefully thats all your hearing. Post back with your findings.

 

[Petes]

re: Sticking lifters

Thanks, I've been sleeping better ever since just knowing there is at least an alternate explanation! I haven't had a chance to test it yet (no reasonable excuse to drive the truck, as it's only 5mi to work - it barely gets off the cold peg). I'll let you know results soon.

 

[Agnem]

Just to clarify what he said, it's the wire on the top of the IP which is closest to you when standing in front of the engine.

 

[Michael Fowler]

To answer your other question...
You do not have to pull the heads to R & R the lifters. Remove the IP, valve covers, Intake and valley pan. Unbolt the rocker assemblies for the affected lifters and remove the push rods. the lifters come right out.
Oh, and FYI, they are ROLLER lifters--High performance stuff!

 

[icanfixall]

Hi profromance lifters....... These same lifters are found in the chevy 6.2 motors along with several "other" motors. Just make sure you don't install the Melling lifter part number JB-2104. They are not roller bearing roller lifters. They are bushing roller lifters. There is a differance. True, we do run a roller hydraulic lifter thats rolling on a needle bearing and that good. As posted above the heads do not need to come off to replace the lifters. Its just as posted but add this. Do not reuse the valley pan gasket and when that has been removed you will see the lifter guides under the spring plate. Remember how the guides come off. Make sure the dimple faces up when they go back on. Other than that about the only thing that really needs a specific torque is the rocker arm bolts and thats 20 ft lbs. When and if you start removing "parts" make sure the rockers and pushrods are kept in the same locations. There is a top and bottom on the pushrods. The copper end goes up into the rockers. On any motor that has some miles on it this may be tuff to see so setup a way to keep them in order so they can be assembled correctly. I hope you don't need to go this deep into your motor but if you do just ask here. We as a collective have been there and have the pictures to prove it.

 

[Petes]

Lifters/injectors/GPs

Yesterday morning it didn't sound as clattery on startup... Disconnecting the wire on the IP (the "correct" one was of course my second choice!) did change the sound, but now I'm questioning exactly what it sounded like last week... so somewhat inconclusive. I'll try again next time.

 

[93_E_350]

You should really wait for the engine to warm up before driving it. I wait until the temp needle is just above the hash mark to the left of Normal. At least on the E40D trans it must be up to a certain temperature before it will shift into OD, I have found that on my truck the trans will go into OD at this mark on the temp gauge. One of the reasons for the radiator / trans cooling is also to warm the trans fluid when it’s cold out. Even the indestructible C6 would probably like to warm up a little prior to being driven.

I have also found that the cold advance shuts down when the temp needle get just above the hash mark to the right of the “C”.

I’m sure that these stock temp gauges vary from unit to unit but if you pay attention to yours you’ll be able to pick out these set points and know when it safe to drive you truck.

93

 

[h2odrx]

Thanks, I've been sleeping better ever since just knowing there is at least an alternate explanation! I haven't had a chance to test it yet (no reasonable excuse to drive the truck, as it's only 5mi to work - it barely gets off the cold peg). I'll let you know results soon.

I'm less than that 1/4 mile so i drive to the next city 8 miles for breakfast every morning! mine rattles some, i wait till the cold advance shuts off before i put it in gear. then ease out to the light before i throw the fuel to it!!!!

 

[Petes]

Lifters, Glowplugs, injectors and funny noises

I still think that it really was a stuck lifter, and it hasn't happened since. I think most folks on the forum took my complants (description) of noise a bit too pessimistically. It's wasn't an obnoxious (i.e. scary) noise, it just seemed a bit more "clattery" than I thought it should. (not clangy, clunky, bang-y or anything that ominous).

All 8 cyliders are firing, with pretty even drops on injection line crack. #4 and #7 may be a bit weaker, but still drop - I just seem to need to loosen the injector nut further. There still seems to be something making a bit of a "clack" at what seems like once every revolution or two... hard to tell, but certainly not 8 or 4x per rev. If a valve was bent or stuck open, I assume it would make more "huffy" noise or crank over unevenly prior to starting (and should show up on a compression or leakdown test, which I haven't done yet). If it's a lifter not pumping up properly, how does one tell? Any static inspection (valve cover off) won't show it, and I wouldn't think it'd show on a compression test either, as oil pressure isn't up. I think the best thing is to just stick my head under the hood of someone else's running 6.9L and compare.

I replaced glowplugs today and pulled injectors to have a look at 'em. They seem to be original - factory paint on injectors and all nuts/line clamps, etc.. They had what appeared to be a datecode of '85 which matches the truck year.. I supposed it wouldn't hurt getting some new ones... after all, the truck's got 250k mi, and that could be why it's hard starting and could be the source of the funky noise.

If there was a GP tip in the piston, wouldn't it sound definitly "not right"? Some folks have said it makes alot of noise - I can envision it making alot of noise when it first drops in and starts getting pounded, but does it cause ongoing racket/misfire? (as in "gosh, sounds like something is definitly wrong with my engine") Can anyone describe what a stuck valve vs. a stuck lifter vs. a GP in piston would sound like?

Thanks,
Pete

 

[icanfixall]

If as you state the injectors have 250,000 miles on them they need to be replaced about 125,000 miles ago. They can be the cause of your noise too. A weak injector spring will allow fuel into the cylinders sooner causing a knock similar to a gasser thats way too far advanced. Buy a new set of Stanadyne or Dehpi and install them to 35 ft lbs of torque.

 

[Diesel JD]

A glow plug tip sounds like a bad knock or tick at least. Most say it sounds like a rod knock as in my buddy's truck. Once its been in there awhile it usually splits the pistona nd then you have a worse clattery noise like the piston is going to get puked out of the motor along with blowby puffing liek a freight train. A valve might be just a slight ticking noise but usually causes a slight misfire and a popping or barking noise through the intake as well as a chuffing sound at the exhaust. It would be useful to listen to a well running 6.9 or even 7.3. The 7.3 has a slightly different sound though. The lifters bleeding down is pretty common when the engine has sat for awhile(talking at least a week or more) If its just very occaisonally it probably does no harm to ignore it. If its constant or frequent the lifters need replacement, possibly along with the camshaft.