Fixnstuff
Full Access Member
Thank you very much for information on removing windshield trim and location of tech article! I didn't know that, I've never needed to do this before.
THANKS
Ray-Wel High Flow Intake System?
- Thread starter Waystro
- Start date
Thank you very much for information on removing windshield trim and location of tech article! I didn't know that, I've never needed to do this before.
THANKS
Fixnstuff
Full Access Member
I made my way all the way up to being a professional consultant in commercial Roofing, Waterproofing, Insulation and Sheet Metal, did detailed storm damage investigations, know the effects of winds on structures, etc.
Everyone in the industry knows (or should) that water WILL find it's way through any pin-hole, crack or leak and can then travel laterally along decking, joists beams etc. and come into the building half way across the building from the original leak. Difficult to find those leaks! We hired services who used infrared cameras at night to find (bright spots on the screen) where water had leaked into insulation below the roofing, to find the leak (marked them with spray paint to be removed and replaced). At Boeing Aircraft, (some gigantic buildings there) helium was released inside the building and helium detectors used on top of the roofs to detect the leaks.
I can tell you that water, by force of gravity, will enter the smallest of cracks and can travel to locations far from the leak, when your engine is NOT running, let alone when it is running.
Dirt and dust will not do that unless engine is running and pulled by vacuum (less so from being pushed by external air flow).
So, in that respect water is much more dangerous than dust or 'dirt' in air. I've never heard of an instance where dirt came through a leaking roof and caused a million+ dollars worth of damage to something like hospital medical equipment or computers, unless a possible roof collapse most often caused by snow loads and ponding water from plugged roof drains However, opposed to dirt, with WATER this damage is not uncommon, usually caused by storm damage (a few other causes)
The point of that, essentially is that water is heavy! 1 square foot of water (0.093 square meter) at 1 inch deep (25.4mm) weighs 5.20233 lbs 1 cubic foot of water (0.0283 m^3) weighs 62.42796 lbs (28.316847 Kg)
Sorry for all of that writing (unnecessary) to state something very simple. Air needs a pressure difference on each side to pass through a crack in a seal and possibly carry dust and dirt with it. (doesn't happen in this subject if engine is not running. The weight of water provides it's own higher pressure to push through crack in a seal when the engine is not running and if engine is running it's worse from the vacuum (negative pressure) on the other side.
Water is scary stuff!
! As for starting a new topic directed here - VERY GOOD IDEA. I will do that but I can't do it tonight.
Fixnstuff
Full Access Member
If you read all of this you will find some interesting, very relevant things, especially near the end.
Tornadoes Too! I've watched some really big thunder/lightning storms moving into central Oklahoma when I was there, observed from flat land to the horizon, spotted from long distances and fascinating to watch. I've been such a weather freak in the past I learned the National Weather Service acronyms used for airline pilots and I watched their (airport) Doppler Radar nearly every early morning to calculate what time storms would arrive. I had to know how to schedule the work at a construction site.
Later, I often watched severe storms on Doppler and learned how to spot possible tornado formations. I got pretty good at predicting where they would form. I nailed a few right on the money! I knew your N.E. Oklahoma area well on Doppler Radar because I had a girlfriend living across the border in Arkansas and always watched the tornado producing storm cells to give her some warning to go in the shelter. She lived in a Mobile Home. She always said, "I AIN'T GOIN' DOWN THERE!!" "TOO MANY SNAKES!!"
I do understand your viewpoint. Lets just say that all seals are important.
A point that I want to make very strongly is that with an air cleaner with a deep dish, you can NOT SEE the seal. A mirror wont work to inspect it and it is (as I think I've described) a real pain in the - (PITA) to remove and replace in order to inspect the seal. It's something I only want to do when I change the air filter which could be a very long time between filter changes. Likewise, how many people bother to inspect the small seal on a stock air cleaner? Again, only when they change the filter, if even then!
By comparison, the hood-to-cowl seal is large, very visible and very easy to inspect for cracks any time the hood is opened- no work at all, really, just put my fingers on it and look. It's also something easy to remember and be reminded of because it is so large and visible. If that doesn't leak we are A-OK for water!
Personally, I have never been concerned with dust and 'dirt' coming through a cracked seal at the screw-down (usually wing nut) on top of an air cleaner and I drove on many hot dusty gravel roads during the summer and have had my engine compartments full of gravel dust many times. I had to blow off the dust on occasions to check if the air cleaner needed to be changed.
Lets assume 4 or 5 tiny cracks in THAT seal. I would estimate that about 99.999xxx if not 100 percent of the air flow is coming directly through the air filter which should have very low resistance when it is good and not plugged up.
Further, in my perceptions (knowing a bit about behavior of air under various positive and negative pressure (or vacuum) conditions including with wind speeds around various structures and shapes) I perceive that there is very low vacuum in the air cleaner to pull any air or dirt through cracks if they do in fact go all the way to the center and into the air cleaner because the air being pulled into the manifold is very efficiently replaced by air coming through the huge surface of the air filter with very little resistance.
HOWEVER, WATER WILL ALWAYS go through those cracks, engine running or not and additionally there is the wicking effect which will pull water through tiny cracks. Left for long enough (days of rain) with a leaking hood-to-cowl seal these small cracks could result in enough water entry to cause a hydro-lock in a cylinder. I've never experienced it and don't want to. A tiny air leak is not going to create an air and dust lock in a cylinder.
If I had a standard air filter and if my truck was running now (lots of stuff apart in engine compartment) I would go outside and use a vacuum gauge to see how much vacuum is present at that hole to get a better idea of what is truly happening at that location. (idea: vacuum sensor to Idiot Ding-Ding Light on instrument panel: "Ding-Ding" then woman's voice... "Your Air Filter is Ready to be changed, would you like me to change it for you?" Yeah, yeah, it's ready! Then... "Here is a map to your nearest Ford Service Center, Ding-Ding" Darn-it! That was a good dream for awhile...
I suspect that any vacuum reading being enough to show on the gauge would indicate that the filter is dirty and any significant vacuum would mean that the filter is dirty enough to bog down the engine.
BUT WAIT! Special deal here for reading this far (thank you) One more better special deal #2 for everyone, further below! So, THAT (small cracks) is not what you are talking about! (I pretty much knew that). You are talking about a very damaged seal or NO SEAL. THAT is a very legitimate concern, especially for water coming down from a leaking hood-to-cowl seal because it does not take much water to cause a hydro-lock in a cylinder AND this can happen with engine not running (parked over night in a heavy rain). While driving in the rain it might be similar to a diesel water injection system BUT DO NOT TRY THIS.
YES it is also a concern for dust and dirt entering the intake when the engine is running- especially on dusty roads. Very much something we want to AVOID AT ALL TIMES.
That being said, it doesn't matter what I said at all (or did not said), ALL SEALS ARE IMPORTANT or they would not have been created and further, there are a few seals that should have been created that were not created.
Special deal number 2:
That leaves us with room to create more improvements for our trucks. I am wondering what other seals would be beneficial and need to be created?
What about hood to fender water/dust seal and extra benefit of noise reduction!? WOW, check this out! Looking at the first photo I posted, under the hood passenger side, there is a wet spot (rain water) and some green stuff on the fender by the mounting bolts. Green stuff is probably tree pollen.
Look and see! An easy to install seal could run along the fender all the way back to the back end of the cowl. (keep in mind that my cowl is not adjusted and is dipping down- it should be flush with the top of the fender). THEN the longer hood-to-cowl seal that I proposed earlier could "tie in" to the fender seal and drainage into the engine compartment would be SOLVED! Also sealed from dust, dirt, debris from trees, etc.
This 'tie-in' of the two seals should be fairly easy to figure out and can be improved with time.
Finished for tonight. (2:45 AM)
Tornadoes Too!
I've watched some really big thunder/lightning storms moving into central Oklahoma when I was there, observed from flat land to the horizon, spotted from long distances and fascinating to watch. I've been such a weather freak in the past I learned the National Weather Service acronyms used for airline pilots and I watched their (airport) Doppler Radar nearly every early morning to calculate what time storms would arrive. I had to know how to schedule the work at a construction site. Later, I often watched severe storms on Doppler and learned how to spot possible tornado formations. I got pretty good at predicting where they would form. I nailed a few right on the money! I knew your N.E. Oklahoma area well on Doppler Radar because I had a girlfriend living across the border in Arkansas and always watched the tornado producing storm cells to give her some warning to go in the shelter. She lived in a Mobile Home. She always said, "I AIN'T GOIN' DOWN THERE!!" "TOO MANY SNAKES!!"
I do understand your viewpoint. Lets just say that all seals are important.
A point that I want to make very strongly is that with an air cleaner with a deep dish, you can NOT SEE the seal. A mirror wont work to inspect it and it is (as I think I've described) a real pain in the - (PITA) to remove and replace in order to inspect the seal. It's something I only want to do when I change the air filter which could be a very long time between filter changes. Likewise, how many people bother to inspect the small seal on a stock air cleaner? Again, only when they change the filter, if even then!
By comparison, the hood-to-cowl seal is large, very visible and very easy to inspect for cracks any time the hood is opened- no work at all, really, just put my fingers on it and look. It's also something easy to remember and be reminded of because it is so large and visible. If that doesn't leak we are A-OK for water!
Personally, I have never been concerned with dust and 'dirt' coming through a cracked seal at the screw-down (usually wing nut) on top of an air cleaner and I drove on many hot dusty gravel roads during the summer and have had my engine compartments full of gravel dust many times. I had to blow off the dust on occasions to check if the air cleaner needed to be changed.
Lets assume 4 or 5 tiny cracks in THAT seal. I would estimate that about 99.999xxx if not 100 percent of the air flow is coming directly through the air filter which should have very low resistance when it is good and not plugged up.
Further, in my perceptions (knowing a bit about behavior of air under various positive and negative pressure (or vacuum) conditions including with wind speeds around various structures and shapes) I perceive that there is very low vacuum in the air cleaner to pull any air or dirt through cracks if they do in fact go all the way to the center and into the air cleaner because the air being pulled into the manifold is very efficiently replaced by air coming through the huge surface of the air filter with very little resistance.
HOWEVER, WATER WILL ALWAYS go through those cracks, engine running or not and additionally there is the wicking effect which will pull water through tiny cracks. Left for long enough (days of rain) with a leaking hood-to-cowl seal these small cracks could result in enough water entry to cause a hydro-lock in a cylinder. I've never experienced it and don't want to. A tiny air leak is not going to create an air and dust lock in a cylinder.
If I had a standard air filter and if my truck was running now (lots of stuff apart in engine compartment) I would go outside and use a vacuum gauge to see how much vacuum is present at that hole to get a better idea of what is truly happening at that location. (idea: vacuum sensor to Idiot Ding-Ding Light on instrument panel: "Ding-Ding" then woman's voice... "Your Air Filter is Ready to be changed, would you like me to change it for you?" Yeah, yeah, it's ready! Then... "Here is a map to your nearest Ford Service Center, Ding-Ding" Darn-it! That was a good dream for awhile...
I suspect that any vacuum reading being enough to show on the gauge would indicate that the filter is dirty and any significant vacuum would mean that the filter is dirty enough to bog down the engine.
BUT WAIT! Special deal here for reading this far (thank you) One more better special deal #2 for everyone, further below! So, THAT (small cracks) is not what you are talking about! (I pretty much knew that). You are talking about a very damaged seal or NO SEAL. THAT is a very legitimate concern, especially for water coming down from a leaking hood-to-cowl seal because it does not take much water to cause a hydro-lock in a cylinder AND this can happen with engine not running (parked over night in a heavy rain). While driving in the rain it might be similar to a diesel water injection system BUT DO NOT TRY THIS.
YES it is also a concern for dust and dirt entering the intake when the engine is running- especially on dusty roads. Very much something we want to AVOID AT ALL TIMES.
That being said, it doesn't matter what I said at all (or did not said), ALL SEALS ARE IMPORTANT or they would not have been created and further, there are a few seals that should have been created that were not created.
Special deal number 2:
That leaves us with room to create more improvements for our trucks. I am wondering what other seals would be beneficial and need to be created?
What about hood to fender water/dust seal and extra benefit of noise reduction!? WOW, check this out! Looking at the first photo I posted, under the hood passenger side, there is a wet spot (rain water) and some green stuff on the fender by the mounting bolts. Green stuff is probably tree pollen.
Look and see! An easy to install seal could run along the fender all the way back to the back end of the cowl. (keep in mind that my cowl is not adjusted and is dipping down- it should be flush with the top of the fender). THEN the longer hood-to-cowl seal that I proposed earlier could "tie in" to the fender seal and drainage into the engine compartment would be SOLVED! Also sealed from dust, dirt, debris from trees, etc.
This 'tie-in' of the two seals should be fairly easy to figure out and can be improved with time.
Finished for tonight. (2:45 AM)
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Fixnstuff
Full Access Member
One thing I forgot to mention. In the second photo of the engine compartment (driver's side) below the cowl seal you can see some water streaks which appear to originate from behind the cowl seal. There were no breaks in the seal above so this means that water is running down from behind the seal.
This shows the importance of a good long lasting waterproof attachment method of the seal to the cowl. That, in part, was the function of the flange at the bottom of the cowl where the seal fits over it AND the metal reinforcement strips in the back of the seal where the screws go through. I don't know if there is a sealant or adhesive behind the seal. I expect that there is not. That is the reason I suggested a small, long rigid strip or aluminum extrusion going all across the longer seal that I proposed. An aluminum extrusion should last a very long time in spite of galvanic corrosion and I think corrosion resistant coated fasteners would be the best and galvanic corrosion would not be a problem.
Alternatively other materials could be used, rigid plastics might be very suitable and easy to tool or shape to accommodate the curves at the ends of a longer seal going all the way to the fender.
This shows the importance of a good long lasting waterproof attachment method of the seal to the cowl. That, in part, was the function of the flange at the bottom of the cowl where the seal fits over it AND the metal reinforcement strips in the back of the seal where the screws go through. I don't know if there is a sealant or adhesive behind the seal. I expect that there is not. That is the reason I suggested a small, long rigid strip or aluminum extrusion going all across the longer seal that I proposed. An aluminum extrusion should last a very long time in spite of galvanic corrosion and I think corrosion resistant coated fasteners would be the best and galvanic corrosion would not be a problem.
Alternatively other materials could be used, rigid plastics might be very suitable and easy to tool or shape to accommodate the curves at the ends of a longer seal going all the way to the fender.
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BioFarmer93
OPEC Hater
1) Yes, it is a fairly dense foam rubber rather than a solid.
2) The image I provided was as close to the actual product as I could find- in reality the two legs are of equal length. It was installed so that the edge of the flat or mounting surface is nearly flush with the top of the hood/cowl, this provides a bit of sealing pressure on the round portion to the underside of the hood.
3) Attachment was by the VERY aggressive adhesive strip on the back of the material- you really only get one chance.
After I removed the screws and crumbling brittle remnants of the old seal, I used a stiff fingernail brush and 409 to remove the heavy crud on the cowl lip, then went over it with a clean rag dampened with mineral spirits. That step was what it took to really prepare the surface for the seal's adhesive strip. (Note to self; only peel a few inches of the adhesive's plastic covering away at a time)
79jasper
Chickenhawk
I can agree with that.
I'm thinking you could completely seal the top and sides, then work in some drains with hoses.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk
I'm thinking you could completely seal the top and sides, then work in some drains with hoses.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk
If it aint broke dont fix it....
Make sure your intake is well sealed the rest....nbd
JM2CW
Make sure your intake is well sealed the rest....nbd
JM2CW
this post reminds me of gimmicks like this 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Blue-Turbon...ash=item56700521e7:g:oDkAAOSwa39U0w~r&vxp=mtr
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Blue-Turbon...ash=item56700521e7:g:oDkAAOSwa39U0w~r&vxp=mtr
HS108
Diesel Newb
this post reminds me of gimmicks like this
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Blue-Turbon...ash=item56700521e7:g:oDkAAOSwa39U0w~r&vxp=mtr
best part of the ad right here
"*Note: Professionals install is strongly recommended to avoid trouble caused by inexperienced installer!"
i dont know man, this one is tied....
"Enhance up to 10% on horsepower and with better mileage per gallon up to 30%"
Stack those units for a double stack effect
stacking them is only recommended for twin turbo applications.
for without it, you will 02 lock your engine
SkylabTech86IDI
Full Access Member
Reviving this thread because I found this:
There’s a Dyno tuner around the corner. It would be a fun test to answer the question of how does this air cleaner impact wheel numbers.
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There’s a Dyno tuner around the corner. It would be a fun test to answer the question of how does this air cleaner impact wheel numbers.
I’ve been looking for one of those for a while. They must be pretty uncommon. Banks made a version of that as well, also must be pretty rare
Only reason I want one is because it would be something different than the factory air cleaner. Definitely not necessary, but I think they look cool
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03wr250f
Full Access Member
I doubt you will see much from a dyno
but I did notice a reduction in smoke and a lowering of egts when I ran one
but I did notice a reduction in smoke and a lowering of egts when I ran one
