possible injector upgrades

[towcat]

if you want a set of used injectors to play with, pm me an address. I have quite a few sets waiting to go to Russ to get cannibalized for parts.

 

[97idi]

also its still not a garenteed product i still havent gotten time to test them but just by comparing the way the pintle seats to a stocker it looks almost the same with just a larger hole!

 

[WrickM]

WELL I UNDERSTAND WHARE YOUR COMING FROM BUT IT TAKES MORE TIME AND MONEY OF MINE TO MAKE THEM FLOW MORE EX- SAY IT COSTS $100 FOR 20% INCREASE THAT MEANS IT WOULD COST MORE FOR A LARGER INCREASE SAY 25% MIGHT BE 10 EXTRA $s AND THIS IS BECAUSE THE AFM MATERIAL ISNT VERRY CHEAP SO THATS JUST THE WAY IT IS IAM NOT TRYING TO RIP PEOPLE OFF HERE THATS WHAT EVERYONE NEEDS TO UNDERSTAND, ITS NOT CHEAP TO BEGIN WITH

See now that makes sense to me. Remember i don't know poop about that machining process. I imagined it more like sand blasting beeds where you pretty much use them over and over on small parts. If it costs more to make them flow more that's entirely reasonable.

and again you can charge whatever you like that's entirely up to you and what the market will stand. i was really just questioning how you said it. I am glad you are trying something, and i hope to hell it works

 

[97idi]

if you want a set of used injectors to play with, pm me an address. I have quite a few sets waiting to go to Russ to get cannibalized for parts.

ha ok well i have a set that iam gona mess with if the first set works, i plan to make a 30% 40% 50% exc and see how far i can go before it just wont atomize/ seal properly, also i think what the main problem is gona be when we get to the larger holes if their isnt enough metal the pintle could push threw so maby illhave to make custom pintles ha

 

[towcat]

if reklund still have a set of DPS's, you might want to see if he will part with a few so you can dissect them to see what was done wrong.

 

[97idi]

See now that makes sense to me. Remember i don't know poop about that machining process. I imagined it more like sand blasting beeds where you pretty much use them over and over on small parts. If it costs more to make them flow more that's entirely reasonable.

and again you can charge whatever you like that's entirely up to you and what the market will stand. i was really just questioning how you said it. I am glad you are trying something, and i hope to hell it works

i guess u can get the cost down alot if you have a large shop but i dont thats one problem i might beable to find some one to doit cheaper as well cuz i know a few owners of big shops but none do much with afm but ill look to other ways to make the $ drop cuz ill be puting some mone down ha thats probly why the MM are a good bit also they are new but idk it just depends on lots of different things

 

[97idi]

if reklund still have a set of DPS's, you might want to see if he will part with a few so you can dissect them to see what was done wrong.

ive never seen a set but i hear the tips are just ground down so the pintle goes up higher when it opens?

 

[sle2115]

Like was already said, I think it's cool that you are doing this...hell, there's a whole thread on how you can make more horsepower, PAGES long, but it wasn't much more than hot air as I haven't seen anything come from it. I applaud you for putting your money where your mouth is and giving it a try. No matter what happens, say it's a total failure, you still learned something and can go at it from a different angle having that knowledge.

Having been a machinist and having rebuilt and popped tested these and many other injectors, if you can produce a set of high performance injectors I think you will be able to sell them. Personally, I'd look at using a new injector, and building that into the price, if you can do that and keep it around $500-$600 I'm guessing you'll sell quite a few considering.

You would be crazy to invest your time and money and not make something on it as well. While some might *****, I don't see them making them either, myself included!

Keep up the good work and keep us posted, I'd maybe not quote a price until you know what it's going to take, I know everyone asked, but you'll know when you know, they'll have to wait till then. I can see that biting you if they are more..."well, you said they were going to be $500, now they are $600, how much you think you need to make on each set?", etc.

And I think you are on the right track, more fuel, better atomized is going to make more power!

Just my opinions, they are worth my asking price!

 

[97idi]

Like was already said, I think it's cool that you are doing this...hell, there's a whole thread on how you can make more horsepower, PAGES long, but it wasn't much more than hot air as I haven't seen anything come from it. I applaud you for putting your money where your mouth is and giving it a try. No matter what happens, say it's a total failure, you still learned something and can go at it from a different angle having that knowledge.

Having been a machinist and having rebuilt and popped tested these and many other injectors, if you can produce a set of high performance injectors I think you will be able to sell them. Personally, I'd look at using a new injector, and building that into the price, if you can do that and keep it around $500-$600 I'm guessing you'll sell quite a few considering.

You would be crazy to invest your time and money and not make something on it as well. While some might *****, I don't see them making them either, myself included!

Keep up the good work and keep us posted, I'd maybe not quote a price until you know what it's going to take, I know everyone asked, but you'll know when you know, they'll have to wait till then. I can see that biting you if they are more..."well, you said they were going to be $500, now they are $600, how much you think you need to make on each set?", etc.

And I think you are on the right track, more fuel, better atomized is going to make more power!

Just my opinions, they are worth my asking price!

Thanks for the support!

 

[icanfixall]

If a multi hole injector were to be made I feel that would better atomize the fuel. I understand the stage 5 psd injectors have 5 holes that the fuel is pumped thru. I know they use a much higher pressure than we can (i think its 10 times higher than what we have) and they pluse it around 5 or 6 times per combustion pluse. Most of the common rail all electronic controlled injectors do the same these days.

 

[sle2115]

If a multi hole injector were to be made I feel that would better atomize the fuel. I understand the stage 5 psd injectors have 5 holes that the fuel is pumped thru. I know they use a much higher pressure than we can (i think its 10 times higher than what we have) and they pluse it around 5 or 6 times per combustion pluse. Most of the common rail all electronic controlled injectors do the same these days.

And that pressure probably does a great job of atomizing fuel. I bet even more so in pulsing where the pressure again spikes, then is released, then closed and spikes, then released, etc. I didn't know they pulsed them, that's pretty cool!

 

[97idi]

If a multi hole injector were to be made I feel that would better atomize the fuel. I understand the stage 5 psd injectors have 5 holes that the fuel is pumped thru. I know they use a much higher pressure than we can (i think its 10 times higher than what we have) and they pluse it around 5 or 6 times per combustion pluse. Most of the common rail all electronic controlled injectors do the same these days.

IVE LOOKED INTO USING A 12V CUMMINS INJECTOR BECAUSE I EASILY MADE IT SCREW INTO A IDI HEAD BUT I NEVER RAN IT BECAUSE I WAS AFRAID THAT THE WIDE SPREAD SPRAY THATS USED FOR THE DIRECT INJECTED TRUCKS MIGHT BLOW UP THE PRE CUP OR DO MAJOR DAMAGE, THOUGH I WAS THINKING IF I COULD FIND A COMPANY THAT MAKES NOZZLES IF THEY COULD MAKE A SET UP THAT SHOT THE FUEL DIRECTLY DOWN (LIKE OURS) OT OF MABY SAY 4 HOLES THAT MIGHT WORK TOO, ALSO I MIGHT BEABLE TO GET DIFFERENT SPRINGS MADE TO FURTHER INCREASE THE BAR PRESS RATHER THAN JUST CHANGING SHIMS

 

[Agnem]

Most multi-hole injectors actually spray sideways. Like a 5.9 Cummins injector, sprays out of 4 holes in the shape of a plus sign. This lays the fuel across the top of the combustion chamber, because after all, if it shot streight down, it would just hit the piston and make a puddle. Likewise, with IDI injectors, if you spray sideways, your just going to hit the precup wall and make a puddle. There really isn't room for more than one spray pattern, and that pattern needs to be a cone shooting streight down. If you look at the way the injector seats in the head, this becomes readily appearant.

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I know that Moose Misters are made using a wire EDM. This allows for fine tolerances to be maintained and each injector to be identical. Since the original pintle is retained, the correct spray pattern is produced, and you can pop test them just like a regular injector. Something you can't do with the DPS Stage 1's. There are 3 sets out there, and no complaints yet. As far as cost, I feel these are so expensive, I don't really have any room for markup. So from my point of view, it doesn't matter to me if I sell any or not, so if somebody comes up with something better it's no skin off my back.

 

[97idi]

Most multi-hole injectors actually spray sideways. Like a 5.9 Cummins injector, sprays out of 4 holes in the shape of a plus sign. This lays the fuel across the top of the combustion chamber, because after all, if it shot streight down, it would just hit the piston and make a puddle. Likewise, with IDI injectors, if you spray sideways, your just going to hit the precup wall and make a puddle. There really isn't room for more than one spray pattern, and that pattern needs to be a cone shooting streight down. If you look at the way the injector seats in the head, this becomes readily appearant.

You must be registered for see images

I know that Moose Misters are made using a wire EDM. This allows for fine tolerances to be maintained and each injector to be identical. Since the original pintle is retained, the correct spray pattern is produced, and you can pop test them just like a regular injector. Something you can't do with the DPS Stage 1's. There are 3 sets out there, and no complaints yet. As far as cost, I feel these are so expensive, I don't really have any room for markup. So from my point of view, it doesn't matter to me if I sell any or not, so if somebody comes up with something better it's no skin off my back.

yeah i know about the side ways spray i just thought it would be cool to beable to make some type of multi hole that sprays down in a slight cone shape

 

[97idi]

hey guys so i just put the first set of my moded injectors in my truck with out them being on the tester to check the pop pressures/spray pattern. so any ways this set up spools my turbo so fast it was crazy, and egts are more than manageable i never got over 800 on the highway pegged at about 15psi and it can def go past 15 but i didnt hold if for to long as i had the speedo barried, i like them alot and iam going to c what i can do to get even more fuel from them!!