On "Trucks" today

girl mark

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It's an electric water heater, and it's insulated, so there's not much to worry about heat-wise.

There are two reasons for heating:
1. when we say it takes an hour or two of mixing (usually by running a circulating pump) to make biodiesel, that's based on the ingredients being up to 130F. If you wanted to work at room temperature you'd have to mix for about 12 hours or something similarly long to achieve the same chemical reaction (it's one of those 'laws of physics' sorts of things, nothing we can do process-wise can change that timing). Also, a lot of the grease we get is just that, grease- kind of gloppy. Heating makes it really liquid. That makes it easier to get it to mix with the methanol- which makes it more likely that you'll get the two (oil and methanol) to react . If you've got gloppy room-temperature sludge trying to mix with methanol (oil and methanol dont' dissolve in each other too well) then what's likely to happen in the reactor is little pockets of oil and little pockets of methanol that aren't touching each other enough to react all the oil. So you get that under-reacted stuff that some newer vehicles seem to be sensitive to. That's what we usually mean when we refer to biodiesel 'quality'- how much is it 'biodiesel' rather than oil, or how 'converted' it is.
2. getting water out- a lot of oil comes with lots of water in it. You can cherry-pick and just take on restaurants whose oil doesn't get any water cooked into it , but it's not always possible for everyone's location. Water is in there from the cooking process and from starches, breading, etc, holding it into the oil in such a way that it won't settle out on it's own. If you heat it, though, you can actually get it to settle or boil away. The process is to either boil it to 220F (not recommended since your water heater thermostat won't allow this unless you do bad things and bypass it, which is somewhat dangerous if you forget you've left it on) or to do the 'heat and let settle' method- filter the oil (we usually don't filter much unless we're trying to dewater this way) warm it up to 140F, leave it in an insulated vessel (ie the water heater processor) for 24 hours, then drain off the stuff at the bottom which contains water. There's a little more to it than I just described but you have to be able to warm it up. It works OK in unheated spaces.

Making biodiesel in your garage- you won't have fumes if you set up the processor so that it 'vents' to the outdoors via a tube or some pipe. The vent is needed only so that you can fill or empty it and give the 'make-up air' somewhere to go (ie if you tried to drain it without an open hole at the top you'd form a vacuum in the tank eventually). The vent lets out a very small amount of methanol vapor (you close it after you've added all the ingredients and re-open it again only when you're draining).

Methanol's bad stuff but it's about like handling gasoline- exactly the same flammability, toxicity, and other 'icities' and precautions (and regulations). Don't smoke around an open tank of it, dont' make an open tank of it, don't drink it, get it on your skin, or any of the other things you wouldn't do to a can of gasoline.

Methoxide- what's made when you react methanol with some lye- is basically the same as methanol- there's a LOT of misinformation on the internet that says that methoxide is more dangerous than methanol itself, but ti's not quite true (if you had dried 'methoxide' powder that would be true cause it's flammable, but the version we make is very dilute and the problem is still just the methanol).

Lye which we handle is Red Devil brand drain opener- be careful, it'll burn your skin if you get it on you, but otherwise it's a common household product.

For very small batches (for experiments) you can make 1-liter at a time without any equipment- some instructions are here:
http://www.localb100.com/cbt/makingasmallbatch/
or you can see an illustrated version by downloading a free copy of "energy Self-sufficiency Newsletter" from April, which is here:

http://rebelwolf.com/essn/ESSN-Apr2005.pdf

my big illustrated article is on page 19-24 of the pdf.


working in a very cold garage is fine, it'll just take longer to heat the oil. Use an extra water heater blanket thingie to insulate it more.

Mark
 

sagebel

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girl mark said:
Scott, if you want to do a writeup including what the parts cost you and where you got them, I'd be happy to host it at the Biodiesel Tutorial- we've been talking about putting together a 'community' section for things like that.

Mark

I can try. It will probably take me a little while. A lot of my time is being taken by the new baby, college, and work. But I will see what I can do. I no longer have any of my reciepts so I will have to go back and get prices for everything.

Scott
 

towcat

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mark-
thanks for the info ;Sweet , but have you considered the history of the mad scientist cookoo that you have just told it to? when he blows up his "compound", his wife will come looking for you :draw he's proven that he's dangerous with water. :rotflmao
goat-boy....I hope you approach this stuff with a little more caution than what you did with HP improvements with the "E" :D















just giving you a bad time :rotflmao
 

girl mark

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Yeah, I just figured out which 'travis' he is the other day... the name change threw me off.

Mark
 

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If you even remotely think your going to spill methoxide or Lye on you, then keep a big jug of vinegar close by. It neutralizes the reaction. (vinegar is an Acid, and Lye is a BASE, and as we know from chemistry, acids counter-act bases.)

Wear gloves, apron, goggles, etc etc, and you should be fine. Keep the LYE away from water, especially hot water, as that is what makes Lye dangerous. It can boil the water and it will splash.

You should already have some vinegar handy, as you will need it in your WASH water to neutralize any remaining lye. Just a couple tablespoons, and then use a Ph test on your wash water until it comes out at 7Ph (neutral)
 

argve

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Calvin... :backoff LOL

Yep have thought about that - quite a bit actually. Figure that when I try this I'm gonna follow the directions to a tee - not like last time and everything else I do which is "if this much is good then this much will be better"... So I ordered the manual from Mark last night and I'm wringing my hands while waiting for it to arrive. Got me some 2 liter bottles saved up to do the testing in.

Got to thinking this afternoon what would happen if I incorrectly measure the lye and say get too much in (like double the dose) what does it make? Does it go BOOM, does it eat through the bucket, does it become unusable, will it kill the injection pump or fuel lines???? Bruuhaaahaaahaaha

Then got to thinking maybe I should hold off on this until we deciede what it is we are going to do - as in I'm going for a new job south of here and will more than likely be selling the house so having a science kit in the garage would probably not look good for the potential sales.
 

jvencius

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Ford_Forgotton said:
If you even remotely think your going to spill methoxide or Lye on you, then keep a big jug of vinegar close by. It neutralizes the reaction. (vinegar is an Acid, and Lye is a BASE, and as we know from chemistry, acids counter-act bases.)


VERY bad idea--it would be far better to have a brush (to brush dry lye) and a high flow emergency shower (Google "Industrial safety" or "emergency shower") instead of a jug of vinegar for spill emergencies. Sure, if you mix an acid and a base the pH will neutralize, but in the process of doing so it'll produce a whole lot of heat so instead of chemical burns, you'll have thermal burns and those are no fun at all.
 

argve

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Scott,

Looks pretty good. I'd like to see a write up on what you've done and more pics of course... I like the filtering aspect/system you got going on... Humm the wheels are still a turning...
 

sagebel

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I got the pre-filter idea from FN74 on TDS. He is running WVO. It is how he pre-filters and dewaters his. I had the opportunity to see his set up and work on his truck when he was in a pinch. Learned a lot. I have some more pics on the computer that I will try to get uploaded soon. I think I may do an article on the SDD.com wiki if I can get it figured out. I'm sure I can get some help from Daryl. This way, it will bring some more attention to both sites.

Scott
 

girl mark

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argve said:
Yep have thought about that - quite a bit actually. Figure that when I try this I'm gonna follow the directions to a tee - not like last time and everything else I do which is "if this much is good then this much will be better"... So I ordered the manual from Mark last night and I'm wringing my hands while waiting for it to arrive. Got me some 2 liter bottles saved up to do the testing in.

You should have it tomorrow or the next day, it got mailed yesterday. Thanks for the support!

Got to thinking this afternoon what would happen if I incorrectly measure the lye and say get too much in (like double the dose) what does it make? Does it go BOOM, does it eat through the bucket, does it become unusable, will it kill the injection pump or fuel lines???? Bruuhaaahaaahaaha

BWAAAHHAAAHHAAHHAA (mad science cackle)- nothing exciting happens.

If you overdo or under-do the lye, you just fail to make biodiesel, but folks, sorry to disappoint you, we aren't making explosives or anythign exciting here. It just makes soap if you screw up (fixable, but better to prevent) or it makes runny vegoil with no visible biodiesel (completely easy to fix).

Basically if you stay away from the old 'turkey frier' sort of ideas on processing equipment, it's really hard to screw up. (ie , no open flame!!!! Keep that turkey cooker for it's rightful place, making 'used oil' (oops I mean turkey dinners) happening for you).


Mark
 

argve

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I seen a video of some dude a while back that was using a turkey fryer and a corded drill set up for making his "*****" now that I looking into this more and more, the more I turned away from that deal.

I got me 2.5 gallons of only used once turkey fryer oil (peanut oil) in the garage ready to go.
 

girl mark

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Turkey fryer oil is GREAT for doing your first experiments. Basically, it's still 'new' oil (not too burnt from re-use, no water in it, not rancid) and that makes it very easy to make biodiesel out of it.

Try a liter batch- here's a SIMPLE way to do it using the 'yellow bottle Heet' from the auto parts store as your source of methanol, and Red Devil Lye as the source of catalyst. I think the recipe even measures the lye in 'teaspoons' (dont do this on a permanent basis):

http://www.localb100.com/cbt/makingasmallbatch/ (when you follow the directions use the ones for new oil rather than waste oil)

Mark
 

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