OK help!

[Moosebob]

Ok so I dropped the pan and took off the pump and found..... nothing! Pickup tube was clear, pump turns fine and pumped well when I stuck it down in the oil pan and spun it by hand. Oil filter looked fine inside what I could see. Flashlight shows clear oil galleys and compressed air made some oil bubble out way up at the lifters and I could feel it at the turbo fitting.

However when I had cranked it before, I got no oil dribble out the front port. Thanks to Oldbull I see also that there is a plug in that one hole. Mine does not have that plug. Not sure if that matters in my case as that should just let oil directly into the galleys, but oil would be able to bypass the filter doing that.

Only thing I can think of is simply the oil pump. I know I'm not the first one inside this engine and I don't see anything that looks like an International part number stamped on it. I did open the oil pump up and clean the sludge out of it before and now I have no pressure. Maybe it's a junky pump???

 

[Moosebob]

OUCH,,,,Thats guna hurt...If its a machine shop problem, Take lots of pictures...Then put a 1"wrench in your back pocket when you go see your shop Guy...

I have a 1 13/16 Proto wrench and an Armstrong 3/4 ratchet that don't see much use..... wouldn't want to tarnish the 1" wrench.

 

[Ugly Moosling]

I wonder if your pump was air bound? I rebuilt a 2.9L out of a Ranger a few years back and had no oil pressure when initially cranking the engine. I loosened the filter and cranked and still nothing. I ended up having to remove the filter base off of the side of the block and squirt some oil backwards into the pump. I guess it needed to be primed. After that it built oil pressure right away so I fired it up and it had no issues.

 

[racer30]

When I have a oil pump ready for install I put some lucas in it so it will stay primed for a while.. With a gear drive pump we cant prime it with a drill like most gassers.....

 

[OLDBULL8]

I would sure put a plug in that threaded hole at the front oil cooler, even tho it is blocked off by the OC casting, if/when you pump pressure, it could blow the OC gasket. In order to get oil to the crank and bearings, it's necessary to cross drill thru the oil galleys, thats why there are plugs all over the engine. How I know this, I was Gen.Foreman Maint. on the 460 line, Lima Engine Plt. 20 yrs. Every engine is manufactured that way, no matter who makes them. The only other thing I can think of, is if that pump is so badly worn, side clearance, that it won't pump. Like I said before, it's a gear pump capable of generating a very high pressure if the output side is blocked. With that small of a gear on it, it's running twice as fast as the crank, that's why it can pump 12 gpm. Did you examine the pump pickup tube for cracks?

Do I have to come up to Bloomfield, won't be up that way until Nov. 16 to a wedding?

 

[Moosebob]

Do I have to come up to Bloomfield, won't be up that way until Nov. 16 to a wedding?

At the rate I'm going, you'll be up here for some sort of problem i'm having.

I checked the tube for any damage last time but didn't this second time around. It pumped something because there was oil all the way up to the lifters and in the filter. I put it in a bowl of oil and it sucked it up and pumped it out when I spun it by hand. It looks and feels fine to me clearance wise. Guess I shouldn't have took it apart and cleaned the sludge out of it the first time around. It's a M165 pump.

All of this frustration just because I replaced a radiator cap!!!

 

[Moosebob]

When I have a oil pump ready for install I put some lucas in it so it will stay primed for a while.. With a gear drive pump we cant prime it with a drill like most gassers.....

I did pour a decent amount of oil in the pump after I cleaned it to help with priming.

 

[OLDBULL8]

In this pic, you can see that the oil level in the pan if full, would be just below the crank counter balance, the pickup tube would be submerged in oil with the engine stopped. There should be no reason for the pump to be primed. Like you said, spinning it by hand, it picked up and pumped. At this point, it's beyond me why you can't get oil pressure.

I was wrong when I said the pump spins twice as fast as the crank, should have said half as fast.

However when I had cranked it before, I got no oil dribble out the front port. Thanks to Oldbull I see also that there is a plug in that one hole. Mine does not have that plug. Not sure if that matters in my case as that should just let oil directly into the galleys, but oil would be able to bypass the filter doing that.

There is no way for oil to get to that hole without the plug, without going thru the filter first, it's blocked off by the oil cooler header, screw a 3/8" pipe plug in it. Look at the oil flow pic, it's just a hole for drilling a crossover oil passage between oil galleys.

 

[riotwarrior]

Something not mentioned here that can have a M A S S I V E effect on pump pick up etc is pickup/pan clearance.

There are a few different methods to test, straight edge across pickup when on engine and measure to pan rail, then measure depth of pan subtract difference.

Place some wax paper on pick up then some good warm soft plastercene ..ya stuff we played with as kids on the wax paper, install pan couple bolts or just press it down against block, then remove and measure HOW thick the plastercene is.

If for some odd reason pump pick up tube is bent and too close to pan it won't draw enough fluid up as well...

JM2CW

Eliminate the obvious and easy first!

Al

 

[Moosebob]

There is no way for oil to get to that hole without the plug, without going thru the filter first, it's blocked off by the oil cooler header, screw a 3/8" pipe plug in it. Look at the oil flow pic, it's just a hole for drilling a crossover oil passage between oil galleys.

If you look at where the gasket covers, I believe that hole would be open to oil going through it. I grabbed a plug lying around at work today from a powerstroke and will see if that happens to fit there. I cleaned the pump in the parts washer and it will even pump the cleaning solvent when I put it in a bowl of it. Also the mechanic at work agrees that the pump doesn't seem to be worn out in any way, guess I'll rule that out.

If all else fails there is a fully dressed 6.9 with 90,*** miles on it 15 minutes away from me for 200 bucks..... Think I might buy that regardless.

 

[Moosebob]

How hard should it be to move the pressure relief valve? I can push it in with my finger pretty easily.

 

[Black dawg]

How hard should it be to move the pressure relief valve? I can push it in with my finger pretty easily.

I have never pushed on the relief valve in an idi, but others are pretty dang stiff.

 

[racer30]

The spring in the regulator is not very stiff. you can easily push it with a screwdriver. I removed my regulator from the header with a tiny bur in my die grinder. cleaned it and shimmed it .034 for more pressure... Just inspect it real good for a chunk of silicone because it regulates cooled unfiltered oil it could pick up a bit of crap from the pan....

 

[Moosebob]

Update... Ok so I put a plug in that one hole behind the oil cooler header. Pulled off 2 rod caps and the bearings were a little scratched, at least on the cap side. I didn't check the rod side or the mains. Put it all back together with the cork oil pan gasket for testing purposes because that grey stuff from Ford is $25!! Hung it from the cherry picker and ran jumper cables to the starter...... Got oil flowing all the way up to the turbo and managed to squeeze out 20psi on the gauge while cranking from only 1 battery. Tried it several times and got pressure each time. Guess it's time to put it all back together and try this again.

 

[OLDBULL8]

I may be too late, but you should check the turbo bearings before install, since you said it was hard to spin. Just hope none of the bearings are shot.