Odd running to not running issue.....

snicklas

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All,

This is related to the Odd Running Question thread. I have some additional symproms, and for sake of clarity, I decided to start an another thread for this additional information / Troubleshooting......

This all started a few weeks back with what I thought was a bad load of fuel (see other thread). As suggested, I have added additional good fuel from my normal station, I have added a somewhat generous amount of Power Service 911 Red Bottle, and with my last fuel addition, added the usual White Bottle Power Service. So this additional information may still lead back to a fuel issue, but wanted to let everyone know where I stand fuel wise. I have added, at this point, at least 40 gallons of fresh fuel to the less that 20 og questionable, all additives have been after adding a small amount of good fuel to the original questionable fuel.

We were driving the truck this weekend, and the miss became much worse, and did not clear up with the engine coming up to normal temperature. We were several miles from home, headed toward home. Once we had gotten back to town, I had to make a stop before we got to the house. When I stopped, I put it in park, and I brought the RPM's up to about 22-2500 RPM. The miss was very pronounced, and there was a lot of light blue, unburned diesel smoke from the exhaust. After this short rev, it seemed to clear up, and started to run correctly. Drove it home, and parked in the garage. Sunday, ran a couple of arrends in my hometown and did not notice any issues. Needed to work on the other vehicle, so I moved the wagon into the garage, and left the truck out front, plugged in the block heater and went in the house. Yesterday, I had completed the work on the car, and was going to switch them back, and put the truck in the garage. Went out, turned the key to run, waited for the WTS, hit the key, it would turn over at normal speed, but only hit on a cyl or two at a time. It would try to run, but as soon as all 8 caught, it would quit. I did notice that while cranking, I did see a bit of white smoke from the tailpipe, not sure if it is the amount I should see, but it was getting at least a some fuel while cranking. I was not able to get it to start. I hooked up the battery charger, and rolled it down the driveway so I could get the car out. Left is in the driveway yesterday, block heater plugged in, and working and the charger to top off the batteries. I did notice the pump in the HFCM seemed a bit noisy, I normally do not hear it running. I tried again last night, and this morning, but in just a quick try, it would not start. I am trying to narrow down what to look at. I am also trying to locate a scanner that I can run the diagnostics on the engine with.....

So, to the collective, troubleshooting ideas.... (besides a scanner, working on that) Could I have 1 or more failed injectors, could the lift pump not be supplying enought fuel, could the FICM be failing and not operating the injectors properly? I do not think it was gelled fuel, but it was down in the teens when I was trying to start it. Could the questionable fuel damaged something? Or the treatments I used to try and deal with the fuel? At a loss at this point, and now just need to get it back on the garage so I am able to work on it inside.....
 
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dakotajeep

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Honestly, you need to scan it for soft codes. I would also recommend using a Scan gauge to see what your FICM voltage is (as you already know). Mine is having very similiar symptoms and I know that my FICM voltage is low and now I am getting code related to the #7 injector.

I plan to send my FICM to http://ficmrepair.com/

HE is recommended by many on others diesel forums. I just otta get it out of the truck and send it.

Thad
 

snicklas

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Thad,

Thanks for the information. I think it may be the FICM. I went out to try it again, and I realized the reason I could hear the fuel pump, was because I didn't hear the Key On "Buzz Test". I tried again, and no matter what, I am not getting the injector buzz at Key On...... so I am going to try the voltage check test, and depending on what I find... they may be getting my FICM....

Wouldn't surprise me if it is having issues. I had alternator/battery issues about a year ago.... so........... since low supply voltage is one of the worst things for the FICM...
 

dakotajeep

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AS a word of note I would ensure that your charging system and batteries are up to *****. If not that could be the real culprit and the possible failing FICM could be a secondary symptom.

Thad
 

snicklas

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I've gotten the charging system issues taken care of. Finally gotten a good alternator, and replaced the batteries (2 Interstate Blems, working great!!!) so I know that didn't help the FICM in the past. Worst case from it, I had left for work, and stopped around the corner at the gas station. Came out, and it was still running, but the alt had quit, and the batteries were low enough the instrument cluster had shut down, I have a cheepy plug-in volt meter and I was down to about 9 volts..... drove it the 1/2 mile back home and parked it.... but that had been running a total of 10 minutes that way..... so I am sure it has some issues, at the least.

However, in the warmer weather today (40 instead of 15) I was able to get it started and backed into the garage.... it was fairly PO'ed about it.... but I did get it moved the 50 feet into the garage... so I can work on it. While it was running, it was loping, like a gasser with a HUGE cam!!!! So something is not right...... just need to figure out what....
 

redroadrunner

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Hi I just read your problems on here and im haveing the same thing happen..were you able to find out your problem yet,I sure would like to know what u come up with
 

snicklas

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Not yet... i did find this out though....

OK... maybe this will help..... a bit more info...

As I said, when it would not start and run it was ~15 out
Last night when it started and kinda ran it was ~40
It has been inside for the last 24+ hours at ~70+ degrees, and it started like normal...

A o-ring that is shrinking in the cold, or an electrical issue because of the cold? Was kinda surprised when it started right up when I tried it this evening.....

Still don't know what is going on....... but temp does seem to have a factor in it...
 

CaptTom

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Hey snicklas,

you been driving my truck?? :backoff

I have similar problem, however, I didn't have alternator dilemma's. I even went so far as to replace my functioning batteries, they were 5 years old, but load tested well.

If you remember, I also replaced my ICP for another dilemma, however, the ICP is/can still be a culprit of our dilemma! Oddly enough, my turbo shooshing went away, hasn't returned, but now the symptoms you describe have reared its head.

I found a thread somewhere that gave a list of symptoms with fixes on the 6.0's.... that's how I remembered the ICP to your/our new problem.

Just a thought, something to check before ripping the brains out of the beast. I'll look for the list and post it if I can re-locate.
 

CaptTom

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Ok, I found this little snippet:

2003/04 Computer Programming Recall 06E17:
Truck built before 9-29-03 are being recalled to have the computer reprogrammed. The reason for this recall is to correct fuel injection timing during cold operation, EGR valve control, lack of power, check engine light illumination (P02263 or P0299), hard starting and rough running concerns related to Exhaust BackPressure sensor corrosion. Other symptoms not listed in this recall, but which could occur, would be excessive smoke, turbo control and surging at idle or cruise. The new update eliminates the EBP sensor input to the computer. The exhaust backpressure will now be inferred/calculated using other sensor signals. Trucks should be reprogrammed using versions 41.8 or 42.1 or higher.
After this reprogramming, the truck should be test driven, the computer checked for a codes and the codes cleared (even if none are present), the key cycled on for five seconds, then turned off twice, then the engine started and allowed to idle for 5 minutes at operating temperature to allow the computer to relearn the EGR valve closed position value. This is to prevent erronious codes or driveability sysmptoms related to the EGR valve an turbo performance. Broadcast Messages 5452, 5529.
You should notice an increase in turbo cycling closed/whistling at idle and at stops. This is normal, and is to help keep the variable vanes from sticking.

And this one:

2003-05 Various Running Problems, Check Engine Light; New EBP Sensor:
Trucks built before 1-17-05 that exhibit buck/jerk, hesitation, lack of power, stalling, stumble, black smoke, surging, rolling idle, changes in engine sound at idle or when driving at a steady speed, or with the trouble codes P2263 or P0299, may have an exhaust backpressure sensor signal that is incorrect or erratic. A revised EBP sensor is available if this is found to be the case. Part number 4C3Z-9J460-A. Broadcast Message 3815.
Normal EBP signal reading should reflect atmospheric pressure with the key on/ engine off. Typically, this is 14.7 PSI/0.88-0.9 volts at sea level, decreasing one PSI/0.10 volt for every 2000 feet of elevation. It should be within 0.5 PSI of BARO and MAP sensor pressure signals.


I'm currently upgrading my IDI, however, my two guesstimations for starting points are first EBP, then EGR and lastly..... rechecking that freakin' ICP I replaced.... Ford and International..... yer gunna keep hearing about this..... a plastic sender in between and exhaust yoke!!!! REALLY?? REALLY?!? Has idiot been fired yet??

Sorry, every time I think about it....well you know...cookoo

BTW- the EBP in the '03 is supposed to be disabled to the computer if you went in for the software revisions, so it may not be the issue, however, it may still be worth a check to see if it matters.

EP or EBP- same thing- http://dan.prxy.org/Truck/6L_bible_html/html/Page_058.html

Here's where I got the info for the above:


http://www.intellidog.com/dieselmann/60bulletin.htm
 

snicklas

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Tom,

It has been upgraded, that was in early 08, it was taken in for a cold engine, low power issue (stiction) and was updated. It cleared up the issues for the last 4 years.... actually, other than the crap alt. rebuilds I got, that has been the only issue I've had with the truck until now.

One other new piece of information. I had to drive the truck tonight (my Sable Wagon decided it wanted to spend the night in a store parking lot....) Trav ran me home to get the truck and pick everyone else up. Truck fired right up, and ran fairly well. I still had an occasional miss accompanied by a blue haze..... but it had been in the garage with the block heater. So I believe there is something temperature related. A seal, or o-ring or the like that shrinks in the cold, and is "better" when it is warmer..... still puzzled..... and now have to figure out why the other car is not running.... I think I lost a fuel pump.... what fun to fix.......so now I am down to the truck.... so here's hoping it stay running....
 

redroadrunner

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Hey mines doing the same

I've gotten the charging system issues taken care of. Finally gotten a good alternator, and replaced the batteries (2 Interstate Blems, working great!!!) so I know that didn't help the FICM in the past. Worst case from it, I had left for work, and stopped around the corner at the gas station. Came out, and it was still running, but the alt had quit, and the batteries were low enough the instrument cluster had shut down, I have a cheepy plug-in volt meter and I was down to about 9 volts..... drove it the 1/2 mile back home and parked it.... but that had been running a total of 10 minutes that way..... so I am sure it has some issues, at the least.

However, in the warmer weather today (40 instead of 15) I was able to get it started and backed into the garage.... it was fairly PO'ed about it.... but I did get it moved the 50 feet into the garage... so I can work on it. While it was running, it was loping, like a gasser with a HUGE cam!!!! So something is not right...... just need to figure out what....

were you able to find out your problem,if so please let me know
 

snicklas

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redroadrunner,

Which issue, the charging system, or the current running issues? The charging system, yes, this current issue, no, I am still working on it.
 

redroadrunner

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when I put a full charge on batterys then start the truck up then I put my multi meter on the batterys and voltage is dropping fast but turn the charger on and the voltage pick back up..I took both alternators and had them checked and they are good so when I relized the voltage drop I changed alternators and still the same..I check fuses,breaker,relays any body got any ideas now,,help
 

snicklas

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That sounds similar to what I went through..... were are you getting you alts?

Here is how mine went:

Factory Alt ~7 years 80,000 miles
1st rebuild (NAPA) - 2 Weeks 200 miles
2nd rebuild (NAPA) - 1 Week 100 miles
3rd New (NAPA) - 1.5 Years 20,000 miles
4th Rebuild (BOSCH from NAPA) - 1+ years and 9000 miles (Still on truck and working fine)

I would suspect the alternator..... the 6.0's are ******* batteries....... they take alot of power to run......
 

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