No Start

[02x72]

Trucks not wanting to start, and the only thing I can think it would be is the new Moose pump. Installed it 3 weeks ago, it ran ok for about a week then I could just tell the truck was acting funny, checked the timing again and all was ok. A week ago it died pullling into a parking lot and now wont start up. Ive got all the simple things covered, electric fuel pump is working, all the fuel filters are new, FSS on the IP is opening, Im getting a healthy amount of fuel to the injectors fuel pressure is good. I dont know what else if could be aside from a failure inside the pump. Any suggestions?

 

[riotwarrior]

Trucks not wanting to start, and the only thing I can think it would be is the new Moose pump. Installed it 3 weeks ago, it ran ok for about a week then I could just tell the truck was acting funny, checked the timing again and all was ok. A week ago it died pullling into a parking lot and now wont start up. Ive got all the simple things covered, electric fuel pump is working, all the fuel filters are new, FSS on the IP is opening, Im getting a healthy amount of fuel to the injectors fuel pressure is good. I dont know what else if could be aside from a failure inside the pump. Any suggestions?

If you are getting fuel to the injectors and good delivery it's not likely that. If it won't start how can you check timing?

If you disconnect the GP's and while turning truck over, give a 1/2 second shot of either...will it then attempt to fire?

 

[02x72]

I checked it two days before it died and it was good, and it hasn't moved since then. I marked the housing for future reference with a chisel. I haven't attempted using ether, I'll try that and see what happens. Thanks for the idea.

 

[bbjordan]

How are the injectors?
Do you get white smoke out the tail pipe when its cranking?
What kind of fuel are you using?

 

[icanfixall]

You mentioned you changed all the fuel filters. How many are you talking about. What fuel are you running. What pressure and volume of fuel is squirting out the filter schrader valve when it cranking or running. A Moose Pump failure is not even possible but I understand you looking at it because its the only thing you replaced and this issue has happened. but its doughtful really. Also please tell us if you removed the aluminum injection pump gear housing with the pump and injection pump gear still attached.

 

[02x72]

The fuel is just regular diesel with a healthy dose of Howes. Injectors are new BB's from Russ. There is white smoke out of the tailpipe so I know fuel is getting to the cylinder. Along with the factory filter I have an inline filter coming from each tank. I do not know the volume of fuel coming out of the schrader valve, but there is sufficient pressure. Enough to shoot a stream across the engine compartment. My gauge is broken so I cant tell exactly. I didn't remove the IP housing so the timing gears are fine. I find it hard to believe as well that it could be the Moose pump but at this point I dont know where to turn but that.

 

[bbjordan]

Ok, it sounds like you are getting fuel. I had a similar problem with the engine dying when taking my foot off of the accelerator pedal. The problem was my timing was too retarded. What is your timing set for?

Are you trying to start it with the accelerator pedal half way to the floor, or all the way to the floor? If so, the face cam on the FIPL shaft will further retard the timing. Is the cold advance solenoid working?

Is the glow plug system working?
Is the engine cranking fast enough?

I'm with Al on this one. Disconnect the Glow plug system and give it a shot of ether/starting fluid. Do not plug it in to warm the engine up or the ether will work against the engine and make death rattly noises

It wouldn't hurt to add some fuel to the tank if you don't know how much is in there either.

 

[icanfixall]

You did tell us you timed the Moose pump but didn't tell us how that was done. Please explain how and what meter was used. You may have done it incorrectly. Many members here know whats the correct way to time and can help too. We will need to know what cylinder you clamped the line probe to but please look at the engine on the intake manifold bolts to the head. Between those bolts there is a cylinder number cast into the manifold. then tell us what meter and what mag probe location was used on the timing tab at the dampner.

 

[02x72]

Well I got it started with the ether and back home so now I can take time and try to fix it. The glow plug system is in perfect condition, all new plugs. Ive got two Group 31 batteries and a GR Nippo starter so it turns over plenty fast. The pump was timed with a Snap on adapter and my advance timing light. Currently set at 8.5 degrees. Clamped on line 1. Like I said it ran fine for a week and then started acting just a little funny and using just a little more fuel than normal. I added the spare 5 gallons into the tank when it died, thinking maybe my pickup broke off, but the inline filters are clear and I can easily see that they are getting fuel through them.
Once I got it running it drove fine. I haven't tried to start it yet with the glow plugs hooked back up so I cant say if it will start on its own or not. If it doesnt when I get it back together, I'm gonna take the Moose pump off and put a good spare Pensacola pump on there and see if that fixes it. If it does, we'll know its the pump and I can go from there.

 

[bbjordan]

Glad you got it going.

Check the timing again and see if it has changed. If it has, it could be the pump.

 

[icanfixall]

A good pensacola pump is a hard pump to find these days... But knowing that you have a good pump for comparisons is the best thing to do right now. You telling us you connected the meter to the number one cylinder. Please tell me where that is on the engine. Then you tell us you set the timing with a snapon 257 meter. Ok. Now did you rev the engine to 2000 rpm to set the timing with all the equiptment you used. If not that is the problem. you must rev the engine to get the internal pump timing to change so you can time these engines correctly. If you just started the engine and shot the light at the dampner tab and said there it is like a gasser engine ... Well your timing is way off about 20 degrees. We have to rev to 2000 rpm to set the timing.

 

[02x72]

The Pensecola pump is a year old and ran fine, I just wanted to upgrade to a Moose. I set the timing correctly at 2000 RPM on the #1 line under the filter. While this is the first time I have done it with this Ferret adapter( I said snap on before, my mistake, it was a long day), Ive timed motors in the past with various luminosity and pulse meters so I know whats going on under there, largely in part to the tech articles here. Thanks for the input thus far guys.

 

[icanfixall]

Your very welcome and please don't feel like I'm digging you too deeply for info on what and where you connected the meter parts. Believe me when I say some members that have used my meters have asked questions that are way out there. One question was why is the meter telling me the timing is 270 degrees. So I asked what cylinder the clamp was connected to and the answer was number on. I gave the example number on is under the filter on the passenger side head. I never say it the left or right side of the engine. Well it turned out to be the guy was using number 2 cylinder and thats the front cylinder on the drivers side. Not the passenger side. So mistakes happen but we can fix them..

 

[theguruat12]

I'm no expert, but if that were my truck I would GUESS that an injector had failed. You're obviously burning some fuel (smoke), and even if the timing were off, I wouldn't THINK that it would run, then suddenly fail, in my mind it wouldn't run correctly from the moment the timing was off (Gary, I'm curious about this regardless, wouldn't it run poorly the whole time it was incorrectly timed, IF it were?). Yes, my first guess would be an injector failure. Still seems unlikely with brand new BB's on there though....

EDIT: Sorry just re-read that you DID get it started, I still think something is wrong with an injector, maybe spraying badly?

 

[02x72]

Ive had this motor running with only 5 of the injector caps tight, so even if one gave up it would still fire off.